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Twelve months on the breast - normal, natural, healthy

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#51 lucky 2

Posted 07 August 2009 - 08:53 PM

Good point marvin2, I agree they are inadequate and smelly, public facilities in the shops/centres that I have visited, I have never used them for feeding, I lie, one in DJ's is good.
Things have improved as they didn't exist in the past at all.
But most are really baby toilets and not fit to feed a baby in.
I'm not sure that the Government will be interested in this issue, they already have guidelines and want employers to provide a place for lactating women to express.
I think they have other fish to fry, as I stated pages ago they are not even funding BF support clinics with lactation consultants (Victorian Government) at the moment, so rooms for lactating women, I wouldn't be holding my breath.
I think subsidising breast pumps will be easier for them (Gov) to do, and it would be an improvement, but breast pumps weren't considered for exemption from the GST when that began, but formula was, so I think that says it all, Formula Manufacturing companies are soooo much more powerful than a bf women and their supporters.
I wonder how much money those large multinational contribute to political donations?

#52 MissST

Posted 07 August 2009 - 09:21 PM

If you think the comment is broad it is only about as broad as 'supply and demand' works. Also I said if a baby cries that much - women seriously have to consider whether the baby is hungry. Absolutely weight loss can confrim if your supply is no good.

I am reading the posts and some people are saying that weight loss was confirmed on their babies but that the nurses said 'keep going with BF'. These nurses blinded by ideology are dangerous.I know a pschologist who said many women end up with PPD due to their lack of success at BF. The ABA really needs to be challenged. There are way too many repetative stories about women's distress associated with BF.

My point. if you read my post properly is that supply and demand does not always work. If is not that cut and dry. And the stat from the BF Association is that 1% fail to produce enough milk or no milk is FALSE. How does that explain the 7 in 8 in my mothers group that topped up with formula all by the age of 3-4 months (some way earlier) and all were on solids by 5 months bar 1 baby. The 8th lady BF exclusively until 6.5 months (and god bless her!). And the 7 of 8 women said if they did not top up with formula baby cried or seemed restless. All said their arvo night supply was low. What about all those wet nurses in the past. Where are our local wet nurses. We HAVE to rely on formula.

Previously the advice for solids was introduction between 4-6 months. When did it become exclusive BF until 6 months. This is a change of only in the last 7-8 years I believe. This is the most stupidest advice out of the ABA over the last few years. Great if you can BF till 6 months exclusively. My sample shows however that it is not actual practice. I was speaking to a 70 year old lady and guess what - the advice then was intro of solids at 6 weeks. That is too early as the babies actually cannot handle food that early (paediatrician I saw said the 6 months exclusive BF is bullocks and really it should be the old advice 4-6 months depending on baby hunger.

I know plenty of women where supply and demand did not work. And a common response to women that top in the arvo/.evening is that they have to top in the afternoon evening due to low supply issues - again why is not supply and demand working if nature makes it all so 'perfect' in all its equilibrium  

Read my post again. I talk a bit about history in my familly. However BF is very important in 3rd world countries due to lack of good quality water supply - absolutely true. In 3rd countries babies still die.Did you see Salma hyek (sorry can't spell her name) feed the starving child (not her baby) due to lack of the mother's natural milk flow. But if the water supply is good I would say to that starving babies mother - boil it and give her formula if there is no salma hyek or local cow or goat to feed the baby.

Better that then hungry children.

My points:

1.Supply and demand does not work, and if a woman feels that in her heart and her baby is hungry and losing weight or p*ssing orange urine due to dehydration (happenend to a lady I worked with), then follow your instincts and top up or go exclusive formula. Do not listen to the advice of the ABA. There are too many posts here were the women were disregarded even though their inituition told them something else.

2. This problem affects more than 1 percent of women.

3.BF Association has given the most stupidest advice of the last few years. Exclusive BF until 6 months. The bar is set way too high and women get despondent and some end up very down on themselves about it.

#53 maroubra2035

Posted 07 August 2009 - 09:47 PM

PM me and I will send you photos of me and my daughter, as well as my mobile phone number so you can call me and see I am not a figment of a marketing executives imagination.

My wife was nearly hospitalised and my daughter was placed under stress. I have reasonably and rationally laid out my arguments and not resorted to the cheap shots that you have continously thrown.

My posts do not lack emotion, but i have tried to convey my experience in a rational collected manner. Something you seem unable or incapable of doing. I dont need to resort to hyperbole and lies to convey my story because its the truth

Edited by lilymurray, 08 August 2009 - 11:06 PM.

#54 TwistedIvy

Posted 07 August 2009 - 10:42 PM

The guidline that babies should be exclsuively breastfed until 6 months of age, has nothing to to with the ABA as such, they merely pass the advice on.

Exclusive breastfeeding to 6 months of age was recommended by Paediatricians and allergy specialists based on data that suggested early introduction of solid food leads to allergies. However, the advice has *again* been changed if you care to do an internet search.

I'm also curious? Are you the mother of one child only? If yes, your experience of 'excessive' crying is absolutely nill then, correct? Crying has nothing to do with whether a baby is starving or not. Colic and reflux or more likely causes. Again, weight gain or loss is really the ONLY way to guage whether a baby is 'starving' or not.

Edited by lilymurray, 08 August 2009 - 11:09 PM.

#55 KRHT

Posted 07 August 2009 - 10:53 PM

I think that the article concerning breastfeeding "12 months on the breast" provided a very  balanced view. I would like to contribute my story and views, as I can  offer suggestions that might be helpful to parents-to-be.
      In short, at first, breastfeeding did not feel natural to me. It felt  painful and demoralising - but the pain was eased greatly with help and  guidance. I came to find that breastfeeding was beautiful, rewarding  and nurturing.
      I breastfed my daughter exclusively for 6 months. She actively  started to favour a bottle of milk at 13 months, weaning shortly thereafter.
      Despite it working for us, I would like to acknowledge the massive  adjustment learning how to breastfeed was for me. (My little one caught  on very quickly though). While, in time, with practice, I could  breastfeed anywhere, I found it initially (for the first month or two) very  difficult. Attachment was the main issue. Feeding required sitting at  least 6-8 hours a day devoted to that one task, and I wondered if I  would ever grasp it. Fortunately, supply was not a problem for me, but  intense pain and nipple cracking made me very discouraged. So I hired a  breastpump to alternate feeds, to sometimes give the nipples a break,  while I sought some professional advice.
      Once I had several day visits as an outpatient to a major hospital's  lactation consultant unit, feeding became immensely easier. The  lactation consultants showed me how to position my little one's head so  it was in the right spot and where to place my own arms and hands, etc.  Having trained consultants gently show me how to do it over several  feeds during the day and reinforce it a week or so later really helped.  I visited my local maternal health clinic for further tips too. Then,  over several months, once we had really established feeding,  and I could see that she was growing healthily, it became a lovely  bonding experience for the two of us. It felt really rewarding to be  able to provide nourishment for her and see her little face relax as  she fed, sometimes falling asleep blissfully after the feed finished.
      My personal view is that I wasn't given realistic information in  pre-natal classes as, perhaps the fear is that people might be scared  off if told that many do at least initially, struggle to some extent.  So I was utterly shocked at how hard breastfeeding initially was. Part  of the problem was also that I had never really seen someone  breastfeeding up close, nor ever thought to question someone about how  they adjusted to it. Whereas, in contrast, I was better prepared for  labour: knowing it would be a real challenge, learning all about the  stages of labour and possibility of needing medical intervention,  spending time selecting a doula (midwife) to assist at the hospital,  meditating, speaking to lots of people about their experiences, etc. So  I think the article should be praised for highlighting the issues, as  it suggests approaches that can really help!
      Tips for parents-to-be that I found helpful:
    -Speak to as many people who have recently breastfed as you can. They  might give you a reality check so adjusting to it is not such a shock.  If you consider that you are committed to breastfeeding, finding out  about potential issues can motivate you to learn how you might adjust,  rather than discourage you, just as learning about pregnancy and labour  can help to face those challenges.
      -Hire an electric breast pump from chemist to be available when milk  comes in. Electric pumps are great when you're completely exhausted and  can't be bothered with a manual pump. This can help to express a tiny  bit before feeds to help the baby latch on.
      -Initially use electric pump to express occasional whole feeds to give  nipples a break. Feed baby the expressed milk (this helped with the 3am  feed when I felt especially wrung out)
      -GET HELP if you are struggling. If necessary, get your partner, family  member or friend to phone every organisation that may be of use to you  and find someone who is sympathetic.
      -Lactation units in major hospitals can be fantastic: my one was a godsend.
      -Find other early parents for moral support and de-brief. Then you know you're not alone.
      Above all, lets not make mothers feel guilty when they struggle with  feeding and ultimately support them in the decision whether to persist  or not. Best of luck to all parents and babies!!

#56 TwistedIvy

Posted 07 August 2009 - 10:58 PM

An excellent story and wonderful advice KRHT.

Edited by Angel and Boo, 07 August 2009 - 10:59 PM.

#57 KRHT

Posted 07 August 2009 - 11:46 PM

Thanks for your feedback, 'Angel and Boo'.

I would just like to emphasise further to my earlier post that I think if parents-to-be are given realistic information about all the issues associated with both breast and formula feeding, prior to becoming parents, it can equip them with resources to meet those challenges.

Also, Marvin2 who wrote the post about the lack of decent parent room facilities in the built environment made a great contribution. I was extremely upset when I took my daughter, (5 weeks old at the time in 2007) to an expo at 'Jeff's Shed' in Melbourne and I could not find a room in that massive building to feed her that was not public. I was still a novice at getting little one to latch at the time and public feeding then was kind of traumatic on account of it. There are of course exceptional, well ventilated facilities in some places that offer clean and comfortable couches, places to change babies that are distant from feeding spots, etc, but these places tend to be hard to locate.

Although breastfeeding mothers do have a legal right to feed in public, on an individual level, it is sometimes not practical, especially for those adjusting to it. Public places therefore need to be better planned to accommodate this.


#58 TwistedIvy

Posted 08 August 2009 - 12:15 AM

Although breastfeeding mothers do have a legal right to feed in public, on an individual level, it is sometimes not practical, especially for those adjusting to it. Public places therefore need to be better planned to accommodate this.

I agree with this.

Interestingly, although I fully subscribe to the idea that mothers can and should be able to feed everywhere and anywhere (and I think I have fed everywhere!), I found I used parenting rooms more when feeding my second child.

With my first son, once I got the hang of it I was happy to use any seat or floor to feed him. But when number two came around I had a very active toddler too, so keeping him contained was of high priority. I found parenting rooms a necessity then, as I could sit and feed DS2, knowing that DS1 wasn't going to runaway and disapear.

#59 idle

Posted 08 August 2009 - 12:21 AM

I will say now from past experience, I have 7 children and when you come home from hospital and do NOT have the opportunity to sleep more than an hour or two a night, have pain, become sick due to being run down and can have stress in large doses from lack of supply along with other life stresses (and with any family and especially one with sick mum and 7 kids stress is aplenty), breastyfeeding is not likely to work solely on supply and demand no matter what ANY pro breastfeeding person or group says.
I was told here this week that there was no physiological reason that being sick and on antibiotics would decrease my milk supply so long as fluid intake was good. NOT TRUE. the first thing my GP and CHN said was 'i'd be surprised if your supply did not drop if not dry up completely' DESPITE BF exclusively during that time.
I am surprised and disgusted by the way that some of the previous posters have been spoken and referred to when as i have said earlier, we are all here with our babies best interest at heart and our main focus.
Keeping baby happy, content, nurtured, fed and loved is priority and whether that comes in the form of breast or bottle is irrelevant. Ideology has no place in this equation and anyone who says that it does not exist in society AND this forum, has blinders on and/or is part of it.

Edited by lilymurray, 08 August 2009 - 11:14 PM.

#60 babyboydec05

Posted 08 August 2009 - 07:41 AM

Previously the advice for solids was introduction between 4-6 months. When did it become exclusive BF until 6 months. This is a change of only in the last 7-8 years I believe. This is the most stupidest advice out of the ABA over the last few years

The ABA does not set these guidelines! Exclusive breasfeeding is the recommendation that is set by the World Health Organisation (WHO). The ABA like all other health care professionals in Australia are just passing on this information.

It seems as though this thread has been rail roaded and some people have lost sight that this a breastfeeding forum aimed at providing breastfeeing advice and support. It is not an anti-formula forum or a forum dedicated to making mothers feel guilty. The original thread was opened to discuss the article that was published during national breastfeeding week and some breastfeeders thought that it does not put a postive light on breastfeeding in a country that already has one of the lowest breastfeeding rates in the developed world.

As a Mum of two who has had mixed experiences with breastfeeding (stopped at 6 weeks with my first but am currently still feeding my almost 6 month old) I have often posted on this forum and have only ever found the advice to be helpful and supportive. I come here because I want support to continue feeding and I know that the members that frequent this forum are very supportive of feeding. If at any stage I thought the health of my child was suffering because of anything, whether it be breastfeeding or an illness I would never let someone else tell me to continue doing something that was harming my child. I think a previous poster said it nicely - own your choices.

Perhaps some of the posters that have posted in this thread need to divert their energies into the venting section of EB.

#61 funkymumkey56

Posted 08 August 2009 - 02:57 PM

Perhaps some of the posters that have posted in this thread need to divert their energies into the venting section of EB.

I agree, new mums and mums to be reading this forum need helpful and practical advice like that given by KRHT.

#62 LilyM

Posted 08 August 2009 - 11:04 PM

Hi All

Thanks to all of you who have contributed constructively toward this discussion.

I have decided to close this thread as I think it has run its course & again requires further editing.

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