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Secondary infertility
Two articles published by EB


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#1 .Ally.

Posted 04 August 2009 - 04:04 PM

QUOTE
A lot has been written about primary infertility, a medical condition which affects one in six couples of childbearing age in Australia and one in five in New Zealand. But there is another more silent group which doesn't get to voice their anguish as publicly. They are the couples going through secondary infertility.

They commonly have one child, in some cases conceived naturally or through IVF, but then the second one does not come along as planned. Secondary infertility comes with its own specific hardships. While couples who have managed to have a child are extremely grateful to have one, they still go through a tormented journey and are not always given the sympathetic ear they need.


Essential Baby has published two articles that tackle the issue of secondary infertility. You can read them here:

Article #1 link> Secondary infertility
Article #2 link > An incomplete family

We'd love to hear your thoughts and comments on the articles here.


#2 mel333

Posted 04 August 2009 - 05:07 PM

*******children and pregnancy/losses mentioned*****







I will add to this....

for me I have ALWAYS known I wanted a big family. I had four children with my first husband and these were very easily achieved pregnancies. In total I actually fell pg 7 times. I had a miscarriage at 19 weeks and 2 others and 5 and 6 weeks respectively.

When my youngest I had a tubal ligation as I was having major issues with Implanon  and they decided to do a D&C and TL at the same time.

Funny thing for me was that I left my husband 2 weeks later as he was a total pig.

I then met another man whom I married and he had twin boys - so I had my lovely big family. I was hectic and funnily enough i still wanted more but he wasn't keen and that was that.  A few years later I started to see another side of him with drinking and gambling. I tried to talk to him to change but no go there. When I said I wanted to leave he said "we can have a baby" and I knew then and there it was finished. My brain screamed "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" when he said that and this was the man I was menat to be madly in love with!

A few years later i am with a man who cherishes the ground I walk on but has no children. We so badly want them together that we embarked on the journey and rollercoaster of IVF/ICSI. My DP has low on everything with his sperm, so totally no point on doing a reversal.

I have had many different comments over the last 18 months. From - "WTF" "Why would you want more" to my darling SIL (sarcasm dripping) saying she wished she hadn't bothered with her 2nd (this is at 8wks) and that she is totally over it. This was 2 weeks after our first failed attempt! I have never known total heartbreak and hurt mixed in with wanting to smash her face in!

After now 3 failed attempts we are on the rollercoaster again..... it hurts physically and emotionally when people challenge your decision to want to have more. I have been asked by people if we are doing it for the money!!!!!!!!! My DP and I are in the 6 figure salaries so that isn't it hahahah! BUt on the money side it has cost us to date around $7000 out of pocket with everything with acupuncture, herbs, going part time for awhile etc etc.....

I guess what I am trying to say here to people who haven't had to worry about secondary indfertility - don't judge us! We want want you have - whether it be the 2nd or 10th baby - all we want is to complete our family in our own way! We still go through the monthly heartbreak - the negative results - the complete despair that we may never have the child so badly wanted.

I wish if I could change the world I would be to help everyone who has been dealt the raw deal in AC and TTC.

Good luck to everyone x

Edited by GeraniumQueen, 04 August 2009 - 06:50 PM.
*******children and pregnancy/losses mentioned*****


#3 Guest_domestically~challenged_*

Posted 04 August 2009 - 08:19 PM

Since this thread was started by EB for discussion, I'm curious as to whether the choice the have ie. a tubal litigation, vasectomy, etc. meets the definition of secondary infertility? Those who have chosen to be sterile/infertilie vs. those that haven't between having more children.

I say this regardless of whether they have changed their mind and are still with the same partner or have remarried later down the track.

I have met some gorgeous EB members dealing with secondary inferitlity and it breaks my heart when they say their only child constantly asks them when they are getting a brother or sister.

#4 BeYOUtiful

Posted 04 August 2009 - 08:35 PM

*******children in gen mentioned*********

QUOTE
I guess what I am trying to say here to people who haven't had to worry about secondary indfertility - don't judge us! We want want you have - whether it be the 2nd or 10th baby

Well, I am sorry, no actually I'm not......your quote above relates to I would guess nobody in this section!  You are in the AC section.  Last time I looked no one here has anywhere near 10 children.
Mel333 I will say I can understand your current partners desire for children.

I can understand children asking about a sibling, some of us if we are successful there will be no attempt at siblings.


Edited by ~Jane05~, 04 August 2009 - 08:39 PM.


#5 jules095

Posted 04 August 2009 - 08:40 PM

**PG & children mentined**


IMO, 2 of the stories in the articles (Jane & Sally) are dealing with primary infertility, NOT secondary infertility. If you needed assistance with TTC#1, then TTC subsequent children, then it isn't SIF. On the other hand if you have conceived naturally then have difficulty TTC again, that is SIF. If I TTC again, I will still consider myself as someone with PIF.

QUOTE (domestically~challenged @ 04/08/2009, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Since this thread was started by EB for discussion, I'm curious as to whether the choice the have ie. a tubal litigation, vasectomy, etc. meets the definition of secondary infertility? Those who have chosen to be sterile/infertilie vs. those that haven't between having more children.

I say this regardless of whether they have changed their mind and are still with the same partner or have remarried later down the track.
IMO, choosing permanent contraception is not SIF. Although IF in defined by the inability to conceive, people who have had permanent contraception have chosen this & in reality are now socially infertile. Social IF is not comparable with medical IF


There are also women in these articles, who are over 40 & even with IVF have a very low chance of conceiving again. (See EB's The cold, hard facts on getting pregnant after 35 article). I also think that the general public out there still think that IVF will work for everyone. It doesn't. Just because you have conceived once, twice or three times before, that does not have any benefit on how successful IVF will be. Even some EBers think this.


QUOTE
"In some ways having a child, you realise how amazing it is and not being able to repeat it is right up there with not having one at all."
blink.gif EXCUSE ME.

glare.gif NOTHING, compares with the feeling that you will never have a child. The above or similar (You know what you're missing when you've had a child) has been said by someone in the AC threads before  & it's just like rubbing the fact you already have a child in the face of someone who doesn't. I think this comment is why some people dealing with SIF do not get the support from others.


I also find both articles anti PIF.
QUOTE
From a practical point of view, the finances are very different for the couples going through secondary infertility. Often the woman may be home with their child, so the man is the sole breadwinner and paying for all the household expenses and the medical costs on top.

"When couples are faced with infertility the first time round, both partners are usually in full time paid employment, and with two incomes this eases the enormous financial situation, if ever so slightly.  With secondary infertility you are usually down to a single income and a toddler to add to your cost of living, not to mention the doctors' bills, clothing and kindy fees," says Mattson.
QUOTE
They've spent $50,000 on IVF.
Oh. so we who are dealing with PIF are rolling in money are we?

That's right, we don't have mortgages, bills, medical expenses, etc. We spend the winter holidaying in France, drive around in our convertibles, shop all day long... rolleyes.gif  


It cost us over $30,000 for us to finally realise the dream of becoming parents. To us, the money is nothing. The end result was what we were aiming for.

Is it acceptable for those dealing with PIF to spent copious amounts of money for treatment, but unacceptable for those dealing with SIF? Treatment is expensive for everyone. If you can't afford it, you have to sacrifice other things. Plain & simple.


QUOTE (domestically~challenged @ 04/08/2009, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have met some gorgeous EB members dealing with secondary infertility and it breaks my heart when they say their only child constantly asks them when they are getting a brother or sister.
hhugs.gif


BTW OT- Why does the articles keep refreshing every 30secs or so? It's a PITA when you are trying to read them & to refer to them in a post, when they keep jumping back to the original page all the time.


---------------------
Jules
TTC#1 since 1/2003
IVF since 7/2005
MFI & Endo
ICSIx5 - Nat FETx2
ICSI#6 - Clomid/Antag - BFP
DS#1 & DS#2 - 17.04.2009


#6 Posh_Girl

Posted 04 August 2009 - 08:43 PM

QUOTE
"In some ways having a child, you realise how amazing it is and not being able to repeat it is right up there with not having one at all."


Ja, it's soooo similar.  sick.gif


#7 Lifesgood

Posted 04 August 2009 - 08:48 PM

Actually mods, I think you need to preface the first reply post with

****Warning: may be highly offensive and hurtful to just about everyone in this section****

The best thing to do IMHO would be to remove that post altogether - no particular gripe with the poster, I'm sure she has no idea how ridiculous that all sounds to those of us who really have struggled to have children.

**child mentioned**

And FWIW, my view as somone who has experienced both primary and secondary infertility, I simply cannot compare the pain and anguish I experienced during my AC journey ttcing #1 (which gave me DD), to the much milder disappointment I have experienced ttcing #2 (without success). The gift of my child, now 3 yrs old, has served as a salve every step of the way in trying, and failing, to have a second child. The despair I felt the first time around was far, far worse.

#8 BeYOUtiful

Posted 04 August 2009 - 08:59 PM

cry1.gif
QUOTE
"In some ways having a child, you realise how amazing it is and not being able to repeat it is right up there with not having one at all."


Edited by ~Jane05~, 04 August 2009 - 10:46 PM.


#9 babyg1

Posted 04 August 2009 - 09:26 PM

I somehow felt that this would lead into a us versus them debate. sad.gif

Nothing and i repeat nothing can compare to the desperation, disappointment, sadness, fear of never having your 1st child!!!!!!! Ever!!!!!!!! It will never be the same as ttc any other children to come. Having said that ttc more children when you suffer from IF is bloody hard. For a whole different range of reasons. Some of which the articles hit the nail on the head!!!

I did not see these articles as saying that people suffering from SIF are worse off then those with PIF but maybe that's just me.  I see it as hopefully opening the uneducated eyes into the mind set of those suffering from it. There are so many articles out there on infertility and esp on PIF that those suffering from SIF tend to get left out. It's nice to see an article on them for once, rather then focusing on the PIF'ers. Not to say that there shouldn't be more articles for them too.

I don't say that to hurt anyone with PIF because i've certainly been there and know what that feels like. Those with PIF that do get success may end up wanting to ttc again. Why should they be made to feel guilty of wanting more kids. It's hard enough without the negative comments.

It really saddens me to see how nasty it can get (from both sides) when in the long run we are desperately trying to get to the same goal.

************warning children mentioned************

I can assure you that any further children i have will be as much loved and cared for as my 1st born (who was conceived by AC) is. Isn't that the most important thing to think about. That we as a group of women are all using AC to have children to love and nurture. That number should be up to us. This comment hits home to me
QUOTE
your efforts to get pregnant again will not deprive other couples who want to have a child


To me that really is what has helped me to deal with ttc with children already. I'm not stopping some other PIF from having their child i'm only trying to complete my family. I'd seriously like to hear from 1 single PIF that they have had their IVF/AC attempts held off because someone with SIF has taken their spot.  unsure.gif

I do understand that our emotions are strained when it comes to ttc and pg and children when we don't have 1 but i'd really like to see both sides of the equation being nicer to each other.

Comments like
QUOTE
In some ways having a child, you realise how amazing it is and not being able to repeat it is right up there with not having one at all
are not true and are totally offensive to those with PIF. They just should not even come into the equation. I think what i feel and felt more was the total guilt over having 1 already and feeling like i was letting down all the other PIF'ers that still hadn't got their joy. Like i should have just been content and happy enough with my 1 so that i wouldn't make anybody else feel bad like they were missing out. That's why i said the other comment helped me to get over the guilt.

On the other side comments stating things that will very obviously hurt someone who is ttc#2,3,4, etc really get to me. Inferring that because we have 1 or 2 children already we should just be happy and get over it really is quite horrible. Making decisions on how many children you thinks someone should have...... Personally i would love to see into my future and know exactly what it is i might want/need in 10-20yrs time. Situations change and decisions made when we are younger are not always for the best. I wish i could change some things from my youth. Hmmmm like never taking the pill (what a waste of money that was laughing2.gif) Should those with permanent contraception (prob a decision they truly regret) be told too bad so sad and criticised for their IF battle. Really i think that attitude is quite harsh and no wonder people feel that they can't post?

As for
QUOTE
Honestly, is it possible to move this thread elsewhere? I can certainly imagine the first post upsetting a lot of people.
sorry whackypacky to single you out but as your the 1st to say it. It disappoints me that yet again even though the title clearly says "secondary infertility" clearly giving PIF the choice of not coming in and not getting offended by comments made here. The SIF'ers are being told to move out of the AC area to somewhere else. cry1.gif

It just really saddens me that we are not made to feel welcome in AC forums except the mums doing AC buddy group even when a title clearly warns of the contents. And it makes me wonder what ever happenned to the discussion on breaking up/adding new forums for the 2 groups.

Just my humble thoughts


#10 BeYOUtiful

Posted 04 August 2009 - 09:48 PM

I have been advised that the 2 sections are being looked into.

It leads into a us vs them because of posts like the 2nd one from Mel333.  Banging on about she wants to tell us here that wanting your 10th child is hard etc etc.  You know what, I don't give a damn how hard it is for her - that may sound harsh, but I truly do not care.  I am now 39 and have no children, why should I need or want to be 'educated' on her situation and ones similar.  I don't come in here and say hey listen up everyone I want to tell you my woes.

AF is extremely late so I am ready for tongue lashings, and no it is not some miracle pregnancy

#11 babyg1

Posted 04 August 2009 - 09:51 PM

whacky your right i could never compare the grief of your PIF status with that of never having another child. It'd kinda be like comparing loosing an uncle with loosing your dad. It just doesn't compare it's a totally different grief. original.gif But it is still grief. It is still someone having a hard time with a choice that is now out of their control. sad.gif

I also don't think that Mel333 was stating that her grief was any harder then yours or that your journey is easier. More that she is suffering from grief also and is not being given the respect that any other grieving person would get. The overwhelming feeling i get here is that she's being told to just get over it (not a nice thing to say to someone grieving i wouldn't think) and stop being selfish enjoy the kids she's got. When in actual fact i don't think she's being selfish at all for wanting another child with her new DP. 1 that will enrich her life, her kids life, her dp's life and certainly with her 6 figure income is not going to affect our tax paying dollars.  

I do understand how mentioning mulitple children can hurt or seem like it's throwing it in the PIF's faces but really it's not the case. I know when i was ttc#1 and came across a lady who had twins from AC and was on her 14th attempt at ttc#3 i questioned in my own head why anyone would not just be happy with the baby/babes they've got. I was jealous of her babes. I was hurt that she couldn't seem to be happy with her 2 kids. All those things that going without a child does to us.

Being on the other side i have a greater understanding of that overwhelming desire to bring more children into your world. I guess it's just not something i thought as a PIF that i'd ever have a problem coming to terms with. I had this view that i'd have my 1 and be happy with that. That i might try for #2 with 1 attempt and then be happy with that. Now??????? But you know if there was some magical potion out there that i could take to break my maternal craving can someone please bottle it up and send it to me. laughing2.gif that way maybe i'd stop wanting more kids and using AC to get them. wink.gif

So EBAlly what's the go on the forums for PIF and SIF or those ttc#2,3,etc using AC? Seems like both sides really need somewhere to turn to with a neutral ground for both somewhere. original.gif

Jane i agree it's not the same but why come into a post clearly marked "secondary IF", i would think it would clearly hurt to read. i just don't think slamming Mel333 for her comments is fair either.

Edited by babyg1, 04 August 2009 - 09:53 PM.


#12 Chill-Pill

Posted 04 August 2009 - 10:01 PM

I am a SIFer and the articles make me wanna scream and run around in circles  dry.gif  I haven't admitted this out loud before but I am kinda nervous that if the forum is split I will be stuck with other SIF'ers who make comments like these and send me insane  Tounge1.gif  The comments about trying to compare how a SIF would feel compared to a PIF is just well so darn insensitive and annoying!!! I also hate the presumption that someone has conceived naturally and then are classed as infertile when they have a toddler running around to look after  wacko.gif  If someone genuinely had no trouble conceiving the first time then surely they would give their bodies some time to recover from the birth, even to finish breastfeeding and to properly give ttc a go naturally before labelling themselves "secondary infertility". I think that would rarely happen by the time the child was toddling!!! I also think the articles confused primary infertility but trying for a second or subsequent child with AC and true secondary infertility.

Ahhh I dunno! Some days I feel all gushy and like everyones experience is valid and just as important as the next and then I see something like this and I suddenly change my mind laughing2.gif

#13 BeYOUtiful

Posted 04 August 2009 - 10:02 PM

1/2 the time I don't read the title, I now see the black dot and click on the threads I have not read.  Not that I need to answer to anyone as to why I open a thread huh.gif
I also have friends online who are enduring SIF so read up on things.

So no one should comment on Mel's comments because it is unfair.  Sorry but I think someone needed to let her know how innappropriate her comments were.

I know you are trying to smooth over the situation or get us all to hug each other, but the fact is we had a poll and a thread here of what the majority wanted, and the majority wanted separate sections.  This thread, where comments are made along lines of 'I am coming in here to let you all know' etc is an example of why it is required.  The friends I have met that have children, do not make comments like this in threads.  The childless are always blamed for not making others feel welcome, yet we are not the ones who start the Us vs them threads.

"Being on the other side i have a greater understanding of that overwhelming desire to bring more children into your world. I guess it's just not something i thought as a PIF that i'd ever have a problem coming to terms with"
It is something I think about alot, so you and I differ there.  I know if we are successful we will only have the one child, some of us ie. me 'just have to' come to terms with it regardless of preference.

Edited by ~Jane05~, 04 August 2009 - 10:35 PM.


#14 jules095

Posted 04 August 2009 - 10:11 PM

**PG & children mentioned**


QUOTE (babyg1 @ 04/08/2009, 09:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It just really saddens me that we are not made to feel welcome in AC forums except the mums doing AC buddy group even when a title clearly warns of the contents.
The AC threads are the only place I feel at home. After dealing with IF for so long, I don't even feel like I belong in the Pregnancy/Parenting after problems conceiving threads.

There are quite a few people who post here that flaunt their previous pregnancies/children. Each & every post they find a way to mention them even if there is no reason to. These are the people who need to be posting in a Mums doing AC thread. Yes, you are proud of you children & have a right to show them off/mention them, but there is a time & a place.

QUOTE (WackyandPacky   Posted Today @  09:58 PM)
Knowing how emotive these threads become, I query EBAlly's decision to publicise these articles here.
yyes.gif

#15 mel333

Posted 04 August 2009 - 10:23 PM

wow look I what I have started!!!!!!!!

I will keep it sweet....

I DID NOT intend to insult, upset or belittle ANYONE!

I am not going to justify what I said to those of you who are determined to hang me up by my toe nails and rip my hair out....(edited)

There was a question raised and I gave my point of view - and living in this country I am allowed to. I don't care whether you agree or not for that matter.

My point was only the pain we feel is the same after every attempt that doesn't work. I still bleed and I still cry, but to those who are determined to NOT try and see anyone else's point of view except your own... enjoy your own company!

Edited by GeraniumQueen, 04 August 2009 - 11:34 PM.
swearing


#16 ♥Penny♥

Posted 04 August 2009 - 10:37 PM

QUOTE
the pain we feel is the same after every attempt that doesn't work


I think this is the exact sort of statement that gets peoples backs up and is what people here have been trying to point out to you. No, it isn't the same pain, how can it be. How irrational, think it over. Luckily, you won't ever know what it is like to never have a child, or grandchildren, or to see your husband with your baby. When your IVF cycles fail don't you feel comforted at least knowing that you do have children, and lots of them?

Edited by dmtimb, 04 August 2009 - 10:38 PM.


#17 mel333

Posted 04 August 2009 - 10:49 PM

DMTIMB -

post was titled "SECONDARY INFERTILTY"

How about YOU think it over!

GEEZ!!!!!!!!!!

and for those comments about my TL being a choice - yes it was - but the decision to do ICSI with my DP wouldn't have made a sh*t show hope in hell in working as he is closer to INFERTILE than FERTILE!



*reversal* not ICSI

#18 Mariamsmum

Posted 04 August 2009 - 10:57 PM

I suffer SIF and I am truly shocked by some of the comments in presented in the article comparing SIF to PIF.

QUOTE
QUOTE
the pain we feel is the same after every attempt that doesn't work


I think this is the exact sort of statement that gets peoples backs up and is what people here have been trying to point out to you.

yyes.gif

****preg/children mentioned****

I'm sorry, but although it bloody hurts each and everytime a cycle has failed, I count my lucky stars that I was blessed with my DS and that I know what it is like to be a mother. Some women will never have this opportunity.




#19 BeYOUtiful

Posted 04 August 2009 - 10:57 PM

Class Act cool.gif

So are you saying childless cannot come into these threads.  Considering you want to be heard, and your story told and for us to 'understand' instead of hanging you by toe nails and fluffing your hair - was that it huh.gif

#20 niban

Posted 04 August 2009 - 10:59 PM


Mel, I fit in the SIF bucket rather than PIF, and must say I found your first post hard to read. Seriously, how do you think people are going to take

QUOTE
I had four children with my first husband and these were very easily achieved pregnancies


What point does that serve? How can you have no inkling of how this would come across? What is truly ironic is your anger at your SIL (wanting to smash her face in) while having the insensitivity to post this in an AC forum with so many people struggling to achieve any pregnancy glare.gif  



#21 jules095

Posted 04 August 2009 - 11:01 PM

Your posts are becoming quite aggressive mel333, which is why I think you are getting the responses that you are.

QUOTE (EB-Ally @ 04/08/2009, 04:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We'd love to hear your thoughts and comments on the articles here.
Ally did ask for comments. She didn't specify that they had to be from those who had SIF though.

#22 babyg1

Posted 04 August 2009 - 11:16 PM

Jane05 truly i thought like you do that the 1 was all i was ever going to have if i was ever lucky enough to have 1 and i'd be happy with that, i'd make myself happy with that. That i wouldn't be in the situation i'm finding myself in now but my situation changed  unsure.gif my thoughts are different now. As yours will be in years to come. How i think now will not be the same as in years to come.

I'm not comparing my having children with not having any. I KNOW that not having kids would be worse for me and for most doing AC.

I do not come into any other AC topics and talk about my children without giving plenty of warning that i'm going to do so and only talk about them in context. I came into this 1 to read the articles and comment on how i thought some of it was true and some of it was not true to me. But i found a battle in place already over who hurt who's feelings. Who suffers more....... Everybody suffers hurt individually why does anybody elses have to be worse the someones???????

I was also 1 who voted for seperate areas with 1 combined area to ask about drug protocols and such. I don't want everyone hugging and kissing cause i certainly wouldn't want to hug some people for their comments (both sides of the AC fence) would just think that we could possibly not attack the SIF's in a topic about SIF???

I wouldn't have thought that a topic title of secondary infertility would not have indicated that people with children would come in here to talk about how it affects them and their family. Even the articles reflect the family thoughts. How wrong i am. Seems that no matter where in AC you go opinions vary and nastyness comes out. Would have thought this would have brought out empathy for those going through a personal difficult time for whoever is going through it.

And to clarify i BELIEVE that AC'ing your 1st is worse the AC'ing any other child, but will never discount the difficulties involved in AC'ing any child!!!



#23 katiesews

Posted 04 August 2009 - 11:38 PM

My experience...
AC, children and a natural conception mentioned


I do agree the sadness of the threat of never having a child is overwhelming and can't be compared..
But I was taken by surprise at how sad  I was at the thought there may not be more children. I was sad that the journey the second time was no easier (more misacrriages and another seven transfers just as for my first 3 IVf and 4FET's, 12 embryos both times). I was also very surprised when another long awaited pregnancy did not take away the sadness.
We were blessed with a naturally conceived baby just after I stopped breastfeeding my second- we were blown away after all those years, once again seemed another pregnancy destined for miscarriage but my little man chose to stay. I really believe he was sent to provide healing for all that had happened before. Finally I have healed.

I have been truly blessed but the journey was often so very diffcult and I payed an enornous emotional toll.
To those of you who have secondary infertility, it is different but the sadness should not be compared or underestimated. It may be different but it is no less real.

I wish you all success in your journey to complete your families

#24 GeraniumQueen

Posted 04 August 2009 - 11:42 PM

Good Evening Ladies,

I have edited for swearing and will monitor this closely.
I am hesitant to pull this thread as it was posted by EB-Ally and have alerted her and admin to decide what to do in the morning.

The seperate forums will be looked at and actioned (I am sure they will happen as the majority seems to want it) once the search function etc have been sorted.

Please let's not start the discussions all over again.

Thanks,
GQ

#25 pundelina

Posted 04 August 2009 - 11:49 PM

***child ment ...***


QUOTE
whacky your right i could never compare the grief of your PIF status with that of never having another child. It'd kinda be like comparing loosing an uncle with loosing your dad. It just doesn't compare it's a totally different grief.  But it is still grief. It is still someone having a hard time with a choice that is now out of their control.


cclap.gif

I really think that it's completely senseless and pointless to compare griefs. True - right now, I'd be a total basketcase if not for the fact of my DS6. But I am pained by the idea that (so far) I cannot have a child with my husband. And he is pained by that too.

My husband had two children with his first wife, I had one with my ex-husband. We would like a child together and that desire is proving fruitless. That hurts and it's allowed to hurt.

Aren't those articles just pointing that out - that people like myself are in pain too? It does sometimes seem that we are not allowed to be hurt by our journeys. That because of the child/ren we have, we are not entitled to any grief for the child/ren we cannot have.

And I think it's somewhat incongruous that we have to write ***child mentioned*** in a topic about secondary infertility. Children will be mentioned by definition.


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