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Unvaccinated child being a carrier?


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#1 jaykap

Posted 06 November 2009 - 03:42 PM

Hello, I'm only new to this so please bare with me. Why is it that I feel so upset everytime I have to explain myself for my daughter not being vaccinated. We chose this path after lots and lots of research but still in this day in age (especially doctors) I feel like I'm hitting a brick wall when asked why my 3 year old isn't vaccinated. I have pretty much stood my ground but today had a concerning question from my brother. His wife is due soon with their fourth baby and he is the biggest sceptic I know. He simply couldn't understand why Talisha wasn't vaccinated and made it seem like Talisha was being put at a very high risk of getting diseases! The next question was if she wasn't vaccinated would she be a carrier of all the diseases not immunised againsed to their newborn baby? I couldnt answer but knew deep down she definately wouldnt be but how do you explain that to someone like him (ahhhhhhhhhhhh). Please please someone give me light at the end of the tunnel. Look forward to lots of helpful responses.
huh.gif

#2 Herebedragons

Posted 06 November 2009 - 03:53 PM

.

Edited by Willoughby Chase, 30 January 2013 - 10:23 AM.


#3 ~Simply*Blue~

Posted 06 November 2009 - 03:59 PM

Your dd is at higher risk at catching certain diseases because she is not immunised. She can catch these diseases and pass them on to his child. I would be extremely wary of having my newborn around a child who is not immunised, especially during any outbreaks.

Surely you can see where he is coming from.

Having said that it's your decision and he has no right to say otherwise, but he also has the right to keep his child away from yours.

#4 ginger72

Posted 06 November 2009 - 04:02 PM

Hi, I don't mean to be rude but if you've done lots of research you would realise that your daughter could pass on any infectious disease she catches because she is not immunised eg. whooping cough, to your brother's newborn baby (although the baby will get some immunity from its mother if she is able/willing to breastfeed).  In terms of being a "carrier", it's not a matter of her "secretly" having these diseases, it's a matter of incubation time and the infectious period of the particular disease.  Many diseases are picked up one to two weeks before they show symptoms.  So your little girl could seem perfectly well to everyone, but could still be capable of passing on a potentially dangerous disease because her symptoms haven't appeared yet.  Very good hygiene practices and limiting physical contact is the best way of preventing transmission of most diseases - but try to tell a three-year old that!  I'm certainly not about to pass judgement on your decision not to immunise your daughter but your brother is entitled to be concerned about his baby's health as well.  Perhaps you both need to see a doctor together to discuss the best way of keeping his newborn safe from diseases.

#5 Turn left

Posted 06 November 2009 - 04:21 PM

Its your choice, and you have to explain that to no one.  However, you do need to respect their position, and understand that your child could potentially pose some risk to unborn babies, should your child come into contact with a disease for which she is not immunised.  

Personally I don't agree with your standpoint and believe that children should be immunised unless they are unable to be because of allergies etc.  Immunisation is the best way to protect all members of society from disease risk, and it is immunisation that has irradicated diseases like smallpox and polio from the western world.  

My DD became VERY ill at 11 months due to picking up Rubella (just before the age she was to be immunised), I would reckon if you'd gone through what we did, then you'd be immunising your child too to avoid those risks to your child.  Some diseases are preventable.

Have you ever seen a picture of smallpox?  Or read about polio?  Or spoken to a person who has lost a child due to preventable disease?  If not, then you haven't researched the topic of vaccination properly.  Please do google them, and be aware of how importaant immunisation is in the community.  It is the high proportion of vaccinised children in society that is protecting YOUR child.  If all children were not immunised, then many would die before adolescence.  Please also google child death rates in 1900, you would be horrified!

Edited by Chocolatecookie, 06 November 2009 - 04:37 PM.


#6 Cinzia

Posted 06 November 2009 - 04:30 PM

You don't have to explain yourself , if he chooses to not have his newborn around your DD - his choice.

Every child, vaccinated or not, can pass on any childhood disease.

If your brother and SIL are not up to date with their vax , then they are just as much a risk .

Just because a child has been vaxed does not mean that they will not get the disease or pass it on.

#7 ratbags

Posted 06 November 2009 - 04:33 PM

I have PM'd you my reply.

#8 FuzzyChocolateToes

Posted 06 November 2009 - 04:39 PM

QUOTE
We chose this path after lots and lots of research but still in this day in age (especially doctors) I feel like I'm hitting a brick wall when asked why my 3 year old isn't vaccinated

They would probably say exactly the same thing about you (just to give you another perspective on it).  I think if you choose to take a stance that goes against medical science, you have to be prepared to cop the flack.  I don't understand why you wold expect medical professionals to be OK with it?  I  agree with your brother.  Obviously I am pro-vaccination - having done my own research (and I did contemplate withholding or delaying my childrens vaccinations but decided it was dangerous).

I was saddened recently to read a number of accounts from families who have lost children from vaccine preventable diseases, including flu,  at http://www.immunize.org/reports/

#9 jaykap

Posted 06 November 2009 - 05:37 PM

I appreciate everyones points of views BUT I have thorougly researched the facts and do not need other people telling me to do so!  It is my informed choice and can understand both sides.

#10 robhat

Posted 06 November 2009 - 05:48 PM

QUOTE (jaykap @ 06/11/2009, 06:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I appreciate everyones points of views BUT I have thorougly researched the facts and do not need other people telling me to do so!  It is my informed choice and can understand both sides.


Obviously you haven't done enough research if you can't understand your brother's concerns...

You can make whatever decision you like and I'm not going to tell you different, but your brother has valid concerns. It is much more likely that your child will contract some preventable diseases than a child who is immunised, making it much more likely that she will pass it on to your brother's newborn.

I wouldn't let my newborn too close to an unvaccinated child... not even cousins...

And quite frankly I think your comments on doctors are rude... Strangely enough they are highly educated in medical things and most of them probably know a lot more than you do about it. I find the assumption that any parent (who isn't a medical professional) could possibly know better than doctors just because they've read some (dodgy) research on immunisation to be arrogant.


#11 Guest_cathode_*

Posted 06 November 2009 - 06:02 PM

QUOTE (jaykap @ 06/11/2009, 03:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I appreciate everyones points of views BUT I have thorougly researched the facts and do not need other people telling me to do so!  It is my informed choice and can understand both sides.

Obviously you haven't or you wouldn't of had to ask such a basic question in the first place....

I agree with Ginger72....

#12 Jeneral

Posted 06 November 2009 - 06:21 PM

Of cause it depends on which disease you are talking about, but the likes of mmr and chicken pox have the danger of being contagious before symptoms appear.  In this case a vaccination program will never completely wipe out the disease as was the case with small pox, though it certainly does reduce its incidence and severity on a community level!

The argument of unvaccinated children being 'carriers' and increasing the spread of the disease is, I believe, based on false logic and a lack of understanding of the disease progression and vaccination limitations.

A child who is vaccinated can still 'catch' the disease, the difference being that it is fought off before it has a chance to take hold, they can still be contagious but never show symptoms.  The unvaccinated child though quickly shows symptoms and can therefore be isolated to prevent the spread.  Niether is any more likely to 'catch' the disease as vaccination targets aquired immunity, the difference is only in the amount of disease progression that takes place.

Basically, if an unvaccinated child who hasn't been previously exposed 'catches' the bug, they will be contagious and then show symptoms.
A vaccinated child 'catches' the bug, may become contagious, may show some symptoms, probably go undiagnosed.
At least with the unvaccinated child you 'know' and can take precautions!

So it is a matter of perspective.. is it better to know and 'see' the enemy, or a lower rate of spread that can't be 'seen'?
There is no definitive answer and is a matter of debate!

Theoretically, a vaccinated child exposed to the disease actually strengthens the aquired immunity and it will last longer and be more effective.  The danger is only for those who are unvaccinated either by choice, due to age, or medical restrictions/allergies.



#13 Roobear

Posted 06 November 2009 - 06:38 PM

Just as you want your point of view to be respected, lead by example by showing your brother respect by accepting his decision. He believes that he is protecting his newborn just as you believe you are protecting your daughter.
While doing all your research I am sure you would have come across that your daughter could be a carrier of disease before she showed any symptoms and therefore she is a danger of infecting children who haven't been immunised. So I don't see what's the problem?
As for hitting a brick wall, if you decide to go against the advice of medical profeesionals and years of credible research (which cannot be accessed by internet always) I think you can expect that so I would just say that "My decision. End of conversation." People will get it soon enough.
Edited: For Spelling!

Edited by possum89, 06 November 2009 - 06:40 PM.


#14 jaykap

Posted 07 November 2009 - 12:56 PM

Message to Robyn (robhat), each to their own opinion!!  Theres no need to for you to be so rude.  I will not waste my time and energy on comments from people like yourself.



QUOTE (robhat @ 06/11/2009, 05:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Obviously you haven't done enough research if you can't understand your brother's concerns...

You can make whatever decision you like and I'm not going to tell you different, but your brother has valid concerns. It is much more likely that your child will contract some preventable diseases than a child who is immunised, making it much more likely that she will pass it on to your brother's newborn.

I wouldn't let my newborn too close to an unvaccinated child... not even cousins...

And quite frankly I think your comments on doctors are rude... Strangely enough they are highly educated in medical things and most of them probably know a lot more than you do about it. I find the assumption that any parent (who isn't a medical professional) could possibly know better than doctors just because they've read some (dodgy) research on immunisation to be arrogant.



#15 Guest_**KM**_*

Posted 08 November 2009 - 01:07 PM

QUOTE
I was saddened recently to read a number of accounts from families who have lost children from vaccine preventable diseases, including flu


Oh Pleeease!!  Children can die of anthing vacced or non vacced, plus let's not forget the adverse reactions (even death) that can come from vaccines! Even many doctors do not recommend the flu shot for children!   My DD2 had the swine flu when she was 11 months and was sick for around 3 weeks, we used vitamin c (sodium ascorbate) in megadoses over a few days and she improved fine, didn'y even take her to doctors.  Informed researched vaccers don't just sit back and do nothing when their kids are sick, we use vitamin c, pro-biotics, homeopathics etc.  My DD2 has been to the doctor once in 14 mths, had one dose of panadol and is building up a great immune system.  I do know non-vaccers who continue to use western medicine (anti-biotics etc), have poor diets, formula feed (this on its own is not an issue but when mixed with other lifestyle choices it is) and generally do not support their children's immune systems which I believe puts their kids at high risk!



#16 chookas!

Posted 09 November 2009 - 04:23 PM

LOL All kids and adults can carry disease, vacc'ed and non-vacc'ed  shrug.gif  No getting around it unfortunately.
QUOTE
I was saddened recently to read a number of accounts from families who have lost children from vaccine preventable diseases, including flu, at http://www.immunize.org/reports/

I'm always saddened by kids killed in car accidents but I still choose to drive a car.

jaykap - don't worry about the negative comments, the majority of parents just do it because "it's good, my GP told me so" or they think it's mandatory. I wouldn't worry.


#17 SemiRuralGirl

Posted 10 November 2009 - 09:08 PM

Wow ... what a debate ...

In the end ALL children carry lots of bugs and if bubs is breastfed they have a very good chance of fighting all the bugs that come their way ... which will be from all different sources; adults, unvaccinated children, vaccinated children, prams, capsules, cots - everywhere.  Please understand I don't think you should go and scrub all these things and be paranoid about germs ... it's actually good for kids to be exposed to these things, it stregthens their immune system.

When a child is vaccinated their body fights the introduced virus.  At this time they too are contagious.  

Personally I think all the people being rude need to just take a step back and remember that there is always two sides to any story.  "Research" is never very convincing as sources and motives can be unreliable.  Vaccinations earn the pharmaceutical companies billions of dollars annually so there is a lot of money there to pull whatever strings they want.  

In the end it is personal choice and everyone has the right to make theirs without criticism from other people.

Jaykap - good luck with dealing with the situation you have at hand.  If your brother is worried then just stay away for a while and visit later - or keep a "safe" distance huh.gif .  Your daughter however is no more a risk than yourself or many others!  ANYONE can be carrying a disease without knowing it vaccinated or not.

#18 chookas!

Posted 10 November 2009 - 09:17 PM

QUOTE
When a child is vaccinated their body fights the introduced virus. At this time they too are contagious.


Not to be picky, but I think you'll find this is incorrect. Most vaccines these days are made with killed viruses therefore are not contagious.



#19 upup

Posted 10 November 2009 - 09:30 PM

Big hugs to you jaykap. I just found out my vaccinated cousin (6 years) has whooping cough and his brother and dad has suspected cases. Now its a waiting game to see if we have caught it.

Vaccinated or unvaccinated everyone can carry disease. Sick people should not be around young babies and everyone should practice high level of hygeine around newborns.

I wish people would stop blaming non-vaxers for disease outbreaks then maybe people would be a little more careful about personal hygiene and teaching kids the importance of wiping their noses and covering their mouths and sharing drink bottles.

#20 upup

Posted 10 November 2009 - 09:33 PM

Double post

Edited by doingit, 10 November 2009 - 09:33 PM.


#21 SemiRuralGirl

Posted 10 November 2009 - 09:34 PM

Haha!! No, be picky!! It's great!

I read this research on the whooping cough vaccine that was talking about levels of contagiousness after the vaccination was received and the possible link to the outbreaks occurring...

I'll see if I can find the link and post it - I'm new to EB and still learning so I'll see how I go! lol! rolleyes.gif

I'll have to do a bit more reading about it ... I'd like to find out more about how the body's immune system responds to the dead virus and creates antibodies etc.  Very interesting and thank you for the comment; I always like learning new things and looking into things!

#22 localyokel

Posted 11 November 2009 - 07:41 PM

Two of my children were vacc'd up to preschool vacc's one who had some vacc's but later than usual, and quite a few missed altogether.  All were breastfed to 6 months.  None have had a 'preventable ' disease.
I do actually know a lot about the diseases myself being a health professional but i still choose to make my own decisions.  I dont choose to take the pharmaceutical companies word for everything.
The last information regarding a new vaccination that i attended was given by a representative of the pharmaceutical company who produced it.  It just doesnt sit right with me.
Yes, i think you should stay away from your bro's newborn.  I think a lot of people should.  The people i have recently met with a 'preventable' disease have all been up to date with their vacc's.  I believe as the vet says when he vacc's the dogs (i have to do that to kennel them, i dont kennel the kids) 'keep them away from other dogs until after the 2nd vacc at least!  So yes, keep the dog away from others, but take the newborn everywhere and anywhere.  I think you should be keeping your newborn close to home and letting them get used to life before you introduce them to all and sundry - people that is.  Ali

#23 funkymumkey56

Posted 15 November 2009 - 12:42 PM

There is no reason your DD is of more risk than anyone else that comes into contact with their newborn. I think a child who has recently been vaccinated can also pass on diseases. If your brother is concerned he should limit visitations form all children and adults.
PLEASE READ OR LISTEN TO THIS BEFORE MAKING ANY COMMENTS.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles...cine-Myths.aspx

Edited by funkymumkey56, 15 November 2009 - 12:47 PM.


#24 SemiRuralGirl

Posted 16 November 2009 - 01:51 PM

Great link thanks, two very knowlegable and well spoken doctors.
Cheers. biggrin.gif

#25 PhilBR

Posted 30 November 2009 - 07:50 AM

Yip big hugs to you Jaykap, for being courageous enough to stand up for your opinions. We also did tons of research, and I can assure you, the only way my kids will be medically vaccinated will be when they are wrenched out of my cold, dead hands.
We used a new approach called homeoprophylaxis, championed by Dr Isaac Golden PhD.
He did many years of research and his safe, scientifically proven method of protecting your children is now available. This is not the time and place for me to explain his appraoch in detail, if you want to know more, read his books -
http://www.homstudy.net/publications/index.htm







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