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I don’t trust her husband ...

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#26 Andrew K

Posted 07 May 2010 - 10:34 AM

I'm not going to say one way or the other what to do or not do. My son is too young so I have never been in this situation of visiting others alone. I am really interested in everyone's opinion on this though.

I'm just wondering if OP's child has displayed any different behavior after they are picked up, even if they return to normal quickly afterward?  If something untoward was happening surely there would be some change in the child even temporarily? Even it's just that they're a bit quiet or something?

Has anyone found out that a child has been abused, even in a minor way, but there has been no change in the child's behavior whenever they are around this person or immediately after? I think what I'm asking is has anyone's thoughts been right when the ONLY thing they had to go on was their own instinct?

Like PP's have said, and coming from a position of no experience here, to me it makes more sense that maybe the child's instincts or behavior are the better guide for this.

#27 mapleleaf

Posted 07 May 2010 - 12:02 PM

I always trust my gut instinct.

I do have a question though. How would you react if someone said their child or they got a "icky" feeling about your husband/partner/father or even yourself etc and refused to let their child around them. Would you be offended and dismiss their concerns or would you be open to the possibilty that maybe just maybe their is a good reason for them to have that "instinct".

#28 bubless

Posted 07 May 2010 - 02:51 PM

I think it's important that if you don't trust anyone (male or female) that you trust your instincts and protect your child.  It's not just about sexual abuse.  If you decide you want to supervise your child or not leave them alone with someone you don't trust, I would definitely suggest trusting that feeling.

My mum had an instinct about my best friend's dad when I was 5, and I never went to their house when the mother wasn't home.  Then once the mother went up to the corner store while I was there and we were out the back playing and while she was out the dad smacked us both.  We had done something naughty although not on purpose - and in any case that's no excuse to spank someone else's child.  I never went back to their house again - we only played at our place after that.

#29 2boys2cute

Posted 07 May 2010 - 06:54 PM

This has been a very interesting read.  I am another who feels its very important to listen to instinct.  I agree, if you ignore those instincts and later find out they were spot on all along, could you ever forgive yourself?  

I also agree that its a shame that some people wrongly assume all men are paedophiles (especially men who work in female dominated occupations or jobs where they have lots of contact with children), and it is a problem in our society that some still feel this way about men in general.  However, the OP wasn't talking about all men in general, she mentioned a specific individual who she feels uncomfortable with...that is a very big difference to assuming that all men in general should be considered paedophiles until proven otherwise.

FWIW, I have very similar feelings towards one of our relatives.  This guy has given me the absolute creeps from the minute I met him.  I can't explain it, or put my finger on what it is exactly that bothers me, but I just can't shake this feeling I get when I am around him, and I simply don't trust him.  We have plenty of other male relatives however, who I would feel 100% comfortable with caring for my kids...but not this guy.  I feel terrible about it, but just can't shake it.

I would rather listen to my instincts and be cautious, than ignore them for the sake of "being nice" and see something unthinkable happen to my children.

#30 LambChop

Posted 07 May 2010 - 10:27 PM

I would listen to my gut instinct, and have done so with both men and women, this includes who I trust with my childrens care, and who I don't.

#31 MamaAndStepMom68

Posted 08 May 2010 - 03:41 PM

Can't add enough weight to the school of 'listen to your instincts". The older I get, the more I realise how often they are end up being right.  

And life is full of tricky situations where you have to figure out how to be true to your principles and hopefully not offend innocent bystanders. This is just one of them.

When my step daughter was young - 5 - she was obssessed with seeing me naked. She used to stalk outside the bathroom to see me without clothes on. Given my own background with a neighbourhood father who tried it on with me at 12, you can imagine how challenging I found this; how did I talk to her about such a delicate subject without frightening her? Talk about it at her level, not shock her out of her childhood?

The answer I can up with was this "the only two people that you need to see without their clothes on are mummy and daddy". To which she then stalked her mum, saw what she wanted to see, and then it was all back to normal.  It was the best I could come up with..

Mumofsky, I am so so sorry for you and your DD that you had such an experience. No words can express just how crap life can be sometimes.

#32 red door

Posted 08 May 2010 - 03:48 PM

I feel like this about my dad. Don't know why, I just do...which makes leaving kids there for any amount of time weird, as I don't actually have any good reason really.

#33 red door

Posted 08 May 2010 - 04:00 PM

QUOTE (David_Johnson @ 06/05/2010, 09:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And people wonder why men feel so emasculated and left out of their child's lives these days!!! It's irrational paranoia like this that destroys the fabric of a community, and gives a bad name to the 99.9% of loving Fathers out there.

Just because they're male doesn't mean they're a paedophile!

Stop reading the ridiculous over-coverage and over-reactions of the mainstream media on these issues, and just get out there and respect your fellow man.

If men would like to regain their fragile sense of masculinity, they need to as a group, fight against the abuse of women and children. That is your innate role you w*n*er, to protect. you are the protectors and yet you fail fail fail, over and over again. you tell women, and I must assume, children, to ignore their instincts because your sense of selves may be eroded...harden the **** up pin d*ck.

When you can come on here and tell me that 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 10 boys are not molested any more because of the men who have stood up, dealt with their own demons and stopped abusing children, then you may have some merit to what you have to say. At this point, whilst you are not fulfilling your role as protector, you will remain emasculated, because you aren't a bloody man.

#34 Cow_girl

Posted 08 May 2010 - 09:29 PM

This story sent shiver's up my spine, same situation of my daughter and I just 18 months ago, I ignored my instinct and my child suffered for it.
She was abused by her friend's father.
I now ALWAYS trust this instinct

#35 red door

Posted 09 May 2010 - 09:05 AM

QUOTE (elindanjah @ 08/05/2010, 10:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This story sent shiver's up my spine, same situation of my daughter and I just 18 months ago, I ignored my instinct and my child suffered for it.
She was abused by her friend's father.
I now ALWAYS trust this instinct

that would have to be one of the hardest things to deal with. We all spend so much energy trying to shield our kids from harm, for it to happen anyway would be so devastating. sorry this happened to your daughter, and...to you.

#36 klee102

Posted 09 May 2010 - 09:18 AM

I agree go with your instincts ...  I agree that 99.9% of the time you get those feelings for a reason.
My daughter since she was a toddler hated my best friends partner ... It was obvious to see to evreyone now shes older if me and my friend want to dash to the shops he offers to watch my daughter with his own 2 girls but i still decline.  He did ask me one day and i told him straight out that i didnt feel comfortable he totaly understood but in saying that ive known this guy since primary school, so i know hes a nice guy , but just a little gruff in the way he speaks. Do i think hes a pedophile ? NO lol but i think its a parents choice who they have around there children.  So to answer a previous posters question how would you feel if someones child said that .. he never took offense to it , My bestfriend even agreed that a child shouldnt be forced to stay with someone. But if it happened to me id probably wonder why ?  Or was my attitude towards them mean or scarey in some way etc

#37 daviesjv

Posted 09 May 2010 - 10:47 AM

I'm so sorry Elindanjah, that that happened to your family. xxxooo

#38 red door

Posted 09 May 2010 - 11:13 AM

on top of trusting our own instincts is allowing children to have and honor their own instincts.

In our culture it is encouraged of children to kiss elderly relatives hello/ goodbye. My mother never forced us to do this, and I would never force my child to either. If they dig their heels in and don't want to, it is really detrimental to force them to. You are basically saying, "I know you feel uncomfortable, but saving face is more important then your feelings right now". A lesson that may prove dangerous in the face of a child feeling comfortable enough to say "NO, I do not want to do that" to an adult.

I still see people every day trying to force their children to do this.

#39 snapchat95

Posted 09 May 2010 - 07:29 PM


Edited by snapchat95, 13 June 2019 - 08:20 PM.

#40 Accidental

Posted 10 May 2010 - 11:24 AM

I suggest you read Gavin de Becker's "Protecting the Gift". In brief, it explains why in a situation such as this , your instinct (or your fear) is the most powerful tool you have in protecting your child. Gut instinct is a primal weapon, developed millenia before rational human thought. If you go against your instinct in this case, you are essentially gambling your child's emotional and physical security. It is NOT worth the risk.

And David_Johnson? Get off this forum, troll. If your primary concern is the emasculation of males instead of the welfare of the particular child in this particular case, you are in the wrong place.

#41 bubless

Posted 10 May 2010 - 11:59 AM

IMHO, I think that David_Johnson's comments have been at least partially taken out of context and blown up into a "men's feelings are more important than children's safety" argument.  

I agree that there should not be an automatic distrust of all men - or if there is (due to concern about pedophilia) I agree that it is a shame for the majority of men who should be equal contributors to the bringing up of children in our community.  If my partner was automatically distrusted from watching our friends' kids then I think this would be terrible - he has much to offer and kids need good male role models.  

But if a parent or child felt uncomfortable or a parent wasn't happy to leave their kids with someone they didn't know very well - be they a man or a woman - then I think this is simply good parenting.

#42 km78

Posted 10 May 2010 - 12:16 PM

I would go with your gut instinct, my best friend in primary school (and who is still my best friend 24 years later) step father abused her for years and it only came out when we were 13.

When we met at age 9 my Mum would reluctantly let me stay there for a while and eventually said no althogether, I chucked tantrums, said I hated her etc and at that age couldn't understand why she was being so mean.

At the time she just said to me she had a bad feeling about it and was not comfortable for me to stay the night, I am grateful she trusted her instinct and didn't give in to me wanting to sleep over.

#43 kateallenby

Posted 10 May 2010 - 03:16 PM

I agree, always trust your instinct.  I saw the show Oprah did on fear and your instincts and it just reinforced what I have always believed, that 'nagging' feeling is just your instinct kicking in warning you to be careful.  Never second guess it especially when it comes to your kids!  Stick to your guns...and if you have to make excuses, then do so, or I agree invite them to your house for a play.

#44 Literary Lemur

Posted 11 May 2010 - 06:27 PM

The instinct which warns me about an individual person is completely separate from my general view on whether people are trustworthy or not.

I have no issue with "men" or "women" but there are certain individuals which leave me feeling uncomfortable.  I don't believe that instinct is the opposite of scientific.  I think our brains, especially womens' which are wired differently, are very good at taking in an enormous amount of information almost immediately and then matching that information against past experiences, stereotypes, etc Much of that processing would not be fully conscious but that does not mean it's airy fairy.  It's part of our basic survival mechanisms.

I only wish I'd had the confidence to follow my instincts when I was eight years old.....

#45 katie.baby

Posted 12 May 2010 - 02:19 PM

QUOTE (klee102 @ 09/05/2010, 09:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree go with your instincts ...  I agree that 99.9% of the time you get those feelings for a reason.
My daughter since she was a toddler hated my best friends partner ... It was obvious to see to evreyone now shes older if me and my friend want to dash to the shops he offers to watch my daughter with his own 2 girls but i still decline.  He did ask me one day and i told him straight out that i didnt feel comfortable he totaly understood but in saying that ive known this guy since primary school, so i know hes a nice guy , but just a little gruff in the way he speaks. Do i think hes a pedophile ? NO lol but i think its a parents choice who they have around there children.  So to answer a previous posters question how would you feel if someones child said that .. he never took offense to it , My bestfriend even agreed that a child shouldnt be forced to stay with someone. But if it happened to me id probably wonder why ?  Or was my attitude towards them mean or scarey in some way etc

Yes I would definitely agree with this, just because someone isn't a paedophile isn't a reason to ignore your child's instincts about them. If your child voices their opinion to you that they aren't comfortable around them, then just listen to them and you will in turn have a deeper and more trusting relationship with your child. I believe this will also help to make them a confident and independant person who is able to value their own opinion as well as others.
My friend's 2 year old got a terrible scare from my husband as he rode in towards her on his massive mountain bike all geared up with a full face helmet and a full face of black hair! She used to love him but when she saw him like that she started screaming and ever since then has been uncomfortable around him. My husband is embarrassed but doesn't take offence in the slightest. He even mentioned to me that it's good she is so well voiced and confident in her own instincts, and hopes our own baby will grow to be like this. That being said, my friend has explained to her daughter that my husband 'did look very scary that day, but it was just because he was on a big bike', yet didn't squander her daughters feelings about the situation and didnt force her to go near him.
It's been about a year since that happened, and her daughter is now content to sit next to him and chat without remembering the 'bike incident'. This is a good example of just being open and letting your child work through their feelings about someone, without dismissing them. If your friend/s are decent and logical people, they will understand this and not be offended.

#46 2boyzandagirl

Posted 12 May 2010 - 02:53 PM

I have these feelings about a friend of DH's.  I know him and his wife and really they are lovely people but the guy always undressers me with his eyes always makes comments about I am only second to his wife WTF? how much a part of our family he is blah blah blah.  He got fired from one job for apparently saying sexual things to a fellow employee which he denied over and over again.  I have never felt comfortable around him and whenever he comes over he goes in for the hello kiss which I ignore and always move away.  The last time he was here when they were leaving he grabbed me and put his hand on my neck and kissed me it was like something my DH would do, DH saw this and after they left said what was that about.  My problem is I now have a DD who is 21 mths and loves being with people, hugging, kissing, playing that sort of thing.  I will not leave her alone with him for a second.  I was sick one day and he came over after work, I was having a lie down and DH went outside to get something.  My room is next door to DD's room and I heard her playing in there, next minute I hear him talking to her which is what got my attention.  She was showing him her toys next minute she says I did poo change my nappy, he said ok well I jumped out of bed and by the time I got there (2 seconds max) he had her on the change table still clothed, I said what are you doing he said she needs a nappy change and I said that's fine i'll do it and he said no you lie down i've got it i've changed my boys nappies when they were babies and I said get out and  will change her nappy you have no business doing it.  He apologised and left but I was shaking, he may not have done anything to her but there was no way in hell I was going to sit back and find out.

#47 mellyeli

Posted 12 May 2010 - 03:34 PM

2boyzandagirl- i think the way this male is towards you is not only weird but sickening. If I were you I would end the friendship, if he makes you feel that uncomfortable when near you or your child he obviously isnt what you would call a friend. Even if you had it out with him about how inaproriate he is towards you, would it really make the firendship better?

I am also in 100% agreement to follow your insticts, even if you are not right, I wouldnt leave it to find out

Edited by mellyeli, 12 May 2010 - 03:35 PM.

#48 2boys2cute

Posted 12 May 2010 - 03:59 PM

2boyzandagirl, I agree with mellyeli 100% on this.  I had a boyfriend years ago, who's father used to do this thing to me  ohmy.gif.  This is slightly different to the topic being discussed, but it is a great example of instinct.  This guy (the boyfriend's father) seriously thought he was God's gift to women - he had the slick, black hair, used to work out heaps, rode a Harley, had heaps of tattoos etc and just thought he was hot property.  Even my own father's secret nick-name for this guy was "FIGJAM".  Whenever I'd turn up there, he'd make a beeline for me, put his hands on either side of my face and pull me gently towards him and try to kiss me on the lips  sick.gif   I even noticed he was a bit like this around his own daughter a couple of times.  And it was not a quick "hello" peck either.  He was seriously gross and full of himself.  He also had quite a porno stash hidden around his house and watched them every single night, sex was obviously his number 1 priority.  Not only did his sleaziness give me the creeps, but I just didn't trust him, I always thought he was into dodgy stuff, and never felt easy around him.  Basically, I felt he was very untrustworthy, despite his overly-friendly & "nice" outward appearances.

His poor wife was so lovely, but very, very slow.  I honestly don't think she ever picked up on his sleaziness.  I eventually broke up with the son (not because of the father, but I have to admit, that was just one thing I couldn't handle).  A couple of years down the track, I heard along the grapevine this guy's father left his wife, had been having affairs on her for pretty much their whole married life, and had been involved in "illegal activities".  Even girls the ex went out with after me told him his father was "a sleaze".  Unfortunately the ex-bf was as slow as his mother though, and went into business with his father.  Turns out, his own father was swindling all the money out of the business (he was supposedly the manager & bookkeeper), drained the bank accounts dry, and p*ssed off, leaving his own son with debts and a business worth bugger-all.

My point is, from day 1 I felt uneasy about this guy, I could never put my finger on it, there was never one thing, or one exact moment that made me feel this way, I just didn't trust him and didn't feel comfortable about him.  Turns out my instincts were right, and I'm glad I always tried to keep my distance from him.

Instinct is a very powerful thing, it must never be disregarded.

#49 treeee

Posted 12 May 2010 - 04:34 PM

After years of being 'educated' and being taught how to use my critical thinking in a very rational way, I've just read a book which is completely changing my view on how I see and make these sort of decisions.

This book, called Blink is pretty much about how we make snap decisions or judgements about people, issues, situations etc - within a blink of an eye. I guess it could be referred to as 'instinct' but it has quite a scientific basis - and is based on how our unconscious mind makes rapid decisions about things without our conscious mind necessarily understanding this in a rational way.

I'd also trust "instinct" now after reading this book - and highly recommend this read if you're interested. I could never make up my mind about my own instincts beforehand after being so influenced to maintain rationality.

#50 trophy

Posted 14 May 2010 - 04:37 PM

Well, this is a topic that no man is going to win...

As a Dad of a 5yo DD, AND the husband of both a Sexual Assault Counsellor / Counsellor, I have been well educated about this stuff from Day 1 of my relationship with DW. For those of you who were giving David_J a hard time, the poor guy has the same frustrations I and many caring men have around this topic, but probably not the insight into the female side of the equation. I agree with David_ in that we have to be careful of too much "cotton-wooling the kids" and tagging all men as predators. It's more important though  that we (Mum, Dad, Kids) have to be more EDUCATED and AWARE around  this topic.

Our DD has been read her "Its my Body" book since she was around 2 and she has been told about good/bad secrets and lies for about the same length of time. Of course she still lies about the mess in the kitchen, etc.  huh.gif but at the end of the day she always comes clean when we stress the importance of any "tricky" situations.

AS for gut instincts - us men just need to let the Mums go with that one. I've seen proof enough to think it's something almost supernatural  ph34r.gif  between Mum's and their kids when it comes to danger so I'd prefer to p*ss off the neighbours (given the 80-90% of perpetrators being family/close friends you had better be a little paranoid at times). I've seen my wife pick up on signals you wouldn't believe (some of which I've also picked up on) and she has also given the all clear for guys I would have swore she wouldn't as well, and we've been fine so far.

I guess its up to each parent at the end of the day to do what's comfortable for them. But, given the dozens of stories I've heard from my wife over the years, and the fact it (paedophilia) is so bloody prevalent its almost a standard topic on crime shows/current affairs these days (watch the movie Taken and then let your daughter out of your sight!), I am very happy to sacrifice a little of my own "paranoia" and "rationality" to any gut instinct if it means my little DD will never have to be one of the stories I so ofter hear about.

Enjoy parenting - and keep educating you and your family - THAT's what keeps them safest at the end of the day


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