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Question for parent who DON'T vaccinate


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73 replies to this topic

#26 Angelina Ballerina

Posted 10 December 2010 - 08:49 PM

I understand that you don't agree with vaccination. I don't agree with your choice, but while you live in a developed nation I recognise the protection herd immunity provides.


Let me be very clear. if you move to a Third world country with unvaccinated children they may very well DIE.
Can you live with this potential outcome? If so, don't vaccinate.

I know this is harsh. I know you are not getting the responses you want to hear. But you are getting the responses you NEED to hear.

Reconsider the decision to move if you do not want to vaccinate.

I wish you well

ETA I do respect that you are reconsidering this. I can tell you are very scared of your children having adverse reactions to vaccinations.

What are your reasons for considering moving to a 3rd world country? It doesn't sound like a good fit for you family under these circumstances. Talk to your GP,. talk to your partner. It's really more a question of should you move than should you vaccinate.

Edited by Angelina Ballerina, 10 December 2010 - 09:07 PM.


#27 protart roflcoptor

Posted 10 December 2010 - 08:59 PM

QUOTE (SimplySarah @ 10/12/2010, 06:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I really only want responses from those who DON'T vaccinate.

I already know the answer from everyone who does vaccinate.



Pfffft, then don't post in a world wide parenting forum! You can't control which members post here. What a strange thing to expect. And what would you like the non-vaxers to say, Possum? Do you really think you can make an INFORMED decision without looking at both sides of a situation?



#28 clairek

Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:03 PM

QUOTE (Azadel @ 10/12/2010, 09:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is in the natural therapies forum, not what do you think. I think the OP wanted to hear from those who understand her point of view, not just "well it's nuts to not vaccinate so I don't understand your problem".


The location of the post is irrelevant, the responses would have still been the same.  Most pro natural therapy people I know (myself included) would still opt for western medicine if no other alternative were available, such as vaccination.

#29 Azadel

Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:03 PM

QUOTE (rosiebird @ 10/12/2010, 09:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is a parenting forum and it is publically available for comment.


Ok. I'm off to give some advice in the large families section then. I'm sure those with large families would understand a currently-childless woman has a right to give advice they didn't want or ask for, this is a public forum.



#30 protart roflcoptor

Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:06 PM

QUOTE (Azadel @ 10/12/2010, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ok. I'm off to give some advice in the large families section then. I'm sure those with large families would understand a currently-childless woman has a right to give advice they didn't want or ask for, this is a public forum.


That is different to parents commenting on vaccinations, they have made the choice at some stage, whether they chose to vaccinate or not they have been through the process.




#31 red door

Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:08 PM

anyway, ignoring the dickheads, the answer would be yes, yes I would, regardless of immunisation status in Australia.

Much of the reason that the illness we view as normal childhood illness, like measles and chicken pox are so mild (in MAJORITY of cases) is because we have a lifetime of good nutrition and health services to support our systems. We also have good health services that can deal with complications if they arise, most of the time. None of these things can be taken as a given in a 3rd world country.

The other thing you may want to think about when weighing it up is that if your children are older, say toddlers, they are better able to handle the immunizations then a small baby. I would speak again to a health professional about separating the vaccines. I might also speak to a doctor who is open minded regarding vaccines and not just dogmatic in their response. Most intelligent doctors I have come across are not PRO vaccination, they are pro weighing up risk versus benefit and that does not always equal vaccination in all cases for all doctors.

Edited by red door, 10 December 2010 - 09:09 PM.


#32 mylittlemen

Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:09 PM

QUOTE
Reconsider the decision to move if you do not want to vaccinate.


Agreed.

I also wouldn't take children unless I had researched the nearest major hospital where I was living and the services it was able to provide.

#33 Acidulous Osprey

Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:16 PM

I used to be a non-vacc'er when the research was equivocal.

I think you are completely, utterly, ****ing, stark raving monster loony tunes to even consider taking un vacced kids to a developing country.

You're welcome.

#34 Guest_**KM**_*

Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:17 PM

I have two children fully vaccinated (except for 4 yr old shots) and 1 not vaccinated at all (she's 2 yrs old).  Firstly I would only move to a 3rd world country if it was life or death or the only job my DH or I could find, I would try and find my way around such a move if I could (not sure of your personal circumstances around your decision to move and I understand it's not always as simple as that). *If* I HAD to move I would hope to wait until my first child is at least 1-2 yrs of age and I would vaccinate slowly on the schedule for the things that were an issue overseas and could cause death/severe health issues long term for my children (and us).  I would also be taking a good supply of naturopathic strength pro-biotics, Vitamin C and homeopathic remedies to use for emergencies, making sure my baby is breastfed LONG term and just hope for the best.  I wouldn't be a fan to take a 6 wk old at all and not keen to go on the schedule that young, but if I did and couldn't get certain vaccines split then I guess all your could do is do it and understand the risks you are taking (but balancing those out with the huge risk not to vaccinate).  If the reactions your first child had to vaccines were severe then I would be looking at any option I had not to move or to hold off moving for as long as I could.

I do feel for you and hope you come to a decision you can find peace with, certainly not an easy one.

Feel free to PM me if you need anymore support ... I won't be replying to any pro-vaccers in this thread so don't bother trying to argue with me or ask me questions on my view!


Edited by **KM**, 10 December 2010 - 09:20 PM.


#35 Jobrielle

Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:26 PM

Sorry to be so harsh but i'm not going to mince words. Regardless of my stance on vaccination here in Australia, I think you are a complete and utter idiot if you are even contemplating taking unvaccinated kids, especially a baby!, to a developing country. If it means that much to you to object to vaccines, then either don't move or accept the very real risk of death or serious complications.

#36 Guest_**KM**_*

Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:26 PM

I will also add a suggestion (and have no idea if this would be an easy thing to do or not) of going to the U.S for a holiday before you go to wherever you are moving to and getting the vaccinations split over there.  I have heard they do it much easier than we can access over here but have no idea how accessing their health system is for when you are travelling if you want vaccinations or whether you need the vaccinations for getting acceptance to move to the country you are going to - really have NO idea about these things but might be worth investigating  original.gif



#37 -river-

Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:29 PM

To answer your question... Yes I would vaccinate my children if we were moving to a 3rd world country.

TBH I wouldn't take my children to live in a 3rd world country regardless of vaccination status.

#38 Duck-o-lah

Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:35 PM

I have a friend who's just done some medical work in a 3rd world country. She showed me the photos of the hospitals and the facilities they had to work with. I would be doing everything I could to prevent your children being admitted. If you vax here and if they have a reaction, at least you know you willl have access to cleaner and more developed medical care than being treated for a preventable disease with limited resources.

#39 Chelli

Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:42 PM

Hi,
Just to let you know that I am watching this thread closely. Yes this is a public forum, but it also somewhere that posters are entitled to some respect. You may disagree with opinions but you need to do so respectfully and stick to the topic at hand. Rude and sarcastic comments will be removed.

Thankyou
Chelli
Moderator

#40 seepi

Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:48 PM

I have also had a job previously which involved images of third world hospitals. These are not hospitals in the sense that we think of hospitals. One image of bright green puddles in a filthy stairwell I have remembered ever since. I forget which country that was though.

Medical care basically doesn't exist in some countries. Even in Fiji, which is a second world country, people just queue up when they get to hospital - there is no concept of severe cases moving to the front of the queue = it is chaotic.

I would consider medical care to be almost non0-existant in third world countries.

#41 mum850

Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:49 PM

QUOTE (fertile woman @ 10/12/2010, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The vaccination schedule in undeveloped countries is a lot less brutal than ours.

and a whole lot of kids die in "undeveloped" coundtries from preventable diseases like measles, tetanus, diphtheria etc.

#42 Guest_cathode_*

Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:55 PM

QUOTE (Azadel @ 10/12/2010, 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is in the natural therapies forum, not what do you think. I think the OP wanted to hear from those who understand her point of view, not just "well it's nuts to not vaccinate so I don't understand your problem".

I think you will find that one does not automatically preclude the other. I know many people that are very into natural therapies, who also happen to vaccinate.


OP - the decision is yours, but it is one that you should discuss at length with your GP.

Personally, I would not live in a 3rd world country with my children.

#43 TopsyTurvy

Posted 10 December 2010 - 10:11 PM

I guess it's lime saying that you would choose not to wear a seatbelt.  In some very rare cases the seatbelt can cause injury, but the risks of injury by not wearing one far outweigh the risks of wearing one.  Do the maths and figure it out.

#44 robhat

Posted 10 December 2010 - 10:16 PM

OK. I have been to a developing country, I have relatives working in the medical profession in developing countries or who have spent some time working in one, and I know people who are missionaries etc...

I would not even take a vaccinated child under say 1 year old to live, or even visit in a developing country... And that is to the 'safer' non slum parts... There are some things you can't vaccinate against that would be REALLY nasty in a little baby... Seriously...

#45 kittennic

Posted 10 December 2010 - 10:18 PM

OP yes I would. I completely understand reasons to avoid vaccination, but the healthcare here is so much better. I know a lot of parents who would rather their children had the diseases than the vaccinations, but that's here, where we have excellent healthcare. I would have thought the lack of sanity/hygeine/excellent hospitals etc would make the diseases much more risky in a "developing" country, therefore the vaccines would be more appealing.

Edited by kittennic, 10 December 2010 - 10:19 PM.


#46 threelittlegems

Posted 10 December 2010 - 10:25 PM

QUOTE
They don't see it necessary to include ridiculous things like Rotavirus and chickenpox. Sometimes having less money does lead to more sensible decisions in my opinion


At the very least, Rotavirus and chicken pox end in a lot of hospital admissions for healthy children.

For children that are not healthy - cancer patients, chronic illness, immune suppressed  for example - these illnesses are life threatening.

Thank you very much for saying protecting DS1's life is ridiculous.

#47 censura carnero

Posted 10 December 2010 - 10:31 PM

QUOTE
They don't see it necessary to include ridiculous things like Rotavirus and chickenpox.
''

Wow! They were the two I definitely wanted.  Even paid hundreds for the rotavirus one as it wasn't on the schedule.  Why on earth would you want little babies and children to go through either of those horrible conditions if they didn't have to?  How cruel.

#48 got my tinsel on

Posted 10 December 2010 - 10:36 PM

QUOTE (fertile woman @ 10/12/2010, 11:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There's always someone who takes a general comment and applies it to themselves and then feels the right to be personally hurt by it.

I wasn't talking about your child.

Back to the topic eh?

So perhaps you were talking about my child then.

My child who at 16 months of age contracted rotovirus (before vaccination was available) and was hospitalised for 6 days.  In an isolation ward - barrier nursed - wimpering - drip in her tiny arm, shivering with cold but with a temp so high I couldn't even hold her as her temp would spike dramatically.  I guess she wasn't really sick though since rotovirus isn't a real issue that requires vaccination.

Perhaps she was the one you had in mind.

#49 threelittlegems

Posted 10 December 2010 - 10:39 PM

Fertile Woman - why don't you admit you made a stupid statement and get it over with, rather than insult everyone that answered it with intelligent answers.

It IS disgusting to say those particular immunisation are ridiculous, because they DO save lives, my child's included.

If you were in my situation you would be bloody thankful for them.

#50 Azadel

Posted 10 December 2010 - 10:41 PM

QUOTE (rosiebird @ 10/12/2010, 11:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can't imagine the OP will pay any attention to her GP's advice if he/she suggests vaccinating her child considering she refuses to hear advice from any parents who vaccinate.


Parents who vaccinate have already, for better or worse, made their minds up. So have the anti vacc crowd. Sounds like the op falls somewhere in the middle.

She dud not ask for advice on vaccination generally. She asked other non-vaccers what they would do in her circumstances. Whilst I have not given birth, I have made decisions regarding the vacc schedule of a child I cared for.

If you believe vaccination should be compulsory for those who can vaccinate their kids, then put your energies into petitioning MPs, state and federal health ministers and other stakeholders into making that the law.








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