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The price of a family
How much would you pay?


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#26 Lys13

Posted 30 December 2010 - 02:27 PM

Wow those of you who continue to try over and over again at such a huge cost inspire me! My DH and I had 2 full cycles of IVF and we were lucky enough to concieve identical twin boys the second time!  We often joken with our doctor that he "owed" us 2 babies!
We were out of pocket approx: $15,000 with all the add on test etc. Our boys were born at 26 weeks and then had to endure 15 weeks in hospital over an hour away from our home. We are all finally home happy and healthy! So was it worth it? YES every time they smile or giggle we are reminded just how wonderful they both are.
While we wouldn't have been able t afford a 3rd attempt straight away I know we would have given up all the little things for just one more go!
Good luck to all of you still trying xx

Edited by Lys13, 30 December 2010 - 02:28 PM.


#27 squirt081

Posted 30 December 2010 - 09:50 PM

It has cost us $12,500 for

2 ICSI cycles
6 FET

We have a 17mth old girl and I'm 32 weeks PG with #2. I know for us it's alot of money but we have been in the lucky group to have had success with so few cycles.

I agree that the cost is nothing compared to holding our little girl and knowing that so far #2 is doing well.

QUOTE
Having said that - my heart goes out to everyone who holds the same dream we do, but don't have the means to pursue it - or who have persued it but not been successful in having their family. That to me is true tragedy


I agree with this and find it just heart breaking.

#28 Kylie de Boer

Posted 01 January 2011 - 12:03 PM

Dear Prue

I read your blog with interest, and appreciate you reminding us that IVF is never easy, either emotionally or financially. You note, in particular with reference to cost, that in comparison with most countries, we in Australia are very fortunate when it comes to IVF.

The single greatest driver of cost is the number of cycles required to achieve a healthy baby, and the ongoing aim of most Australian IVF clinics and their doctors is to continually improve success rates - a greater chance of pregnancy per cycle means less total cost to the couple, as less total cycles are required by a couple to achieve a successful pregnancy. One well conducted IVF cycle utilizing the best care and the best science is significantly less expensive for a couple, than the additive cost of multiple treatment cycles with lower success rates.

Whilst you talked about the financial comparison to the US, significant comparisons also exist at a medical and scientific level. I was amazed at the recent infertility conference in Munich (20th World Congress on Fertility and Sterility) on how advanced Australia still remains in these areas. In the discussion on “choosing the best embryo” to establish a pregnancy in an IVF cycle, an American IVF Doctor told the conference how important it was that this becomes a focus for American IVF units because in America “the high success rates associated with IVF are attained in many cases through the simultaneous transfer of multiple embryos at the expense of multiple pregnancies”. His point is illustrated with multiple birth stories in magazines, and is often brought to our attention via celebrity IVF ‘success’ in the US.

Dr Seli, from Yale University, went on to describe how multiple pregnancies from IVF cost the US health system almost 1 billion US dollars per year primarily due to preterm birth.  This, he stated, was the encouragement clinicians needed to reduce the number of embryos transferred.  He went on to congratulate his American colleagues on reducing the average number transferred from 3.4 embryos to 2.4 embryos in recent times.  Tragically he didn’t mention any encouragement to reduce the multiple birth rate from the point of view of a large number of couples who, after a multiple pregnancy, went home from the hospital without a healthy baby (or any baby at all).

Eight years ago, in 2002 at the internationally renowned European ESHRE conference, Sydney IVF presented its findings on elective single embryo transfer reporting that patients who underwent elective single embryo transfer trended towards a higher implantation rate and a higher fetal heart positive pregnancy rate, meaning that these patients were more likely to have a single healthy baby.  Patients who had only one embryo transferred had a multiple pregnancy rate reduced to 2% compared to 44% in the group that had 2 embryos transferred (it was not zero as there was a set of identical twins).  In 2004, in a larger study, Sydney IVF again reported on the single embryo transfer group at the Fertility Society of Australia meeting.  For the IVF couples, most importantly, the group who had elective single embryo transfer had an equal (if not slightly higher pregnancy rate) than the group who had multiple embryos transferred, and they had not a single neonatal death in their group.  Sadly, five couples in the group with multiple embryos transferred did not take home a live baby following their pregnancy. It was their story that made me determined to tell this tale. This work was published in the international journal Fertility and Sterility in 2004.

However, to help convince the Americans, the numbers stack up too. Georgina Chambers reported at the Fertility Society of Australia conference in 2009 that in Australia, the commitment to research and resulting standards in better patient care resulted in a reduction in multiple births from 2003 to 2007 resulting in total savings of $31 million in birth-admission costs alone – and longer term costs of caring for multiple birth infants would be even higher. She calculated that based on 2008 dollars, this saving in healthcare expenditure buys almost 5,000 IVF cycles made up of one fresh and one frozen cycle. Dr Chambers’ study also showed that in Australia, affordability of IVF was best of all of the countries with a cost of a standard cycle at around six percent of disposable income after government subsidies.  

We were told in Munich that “decreasing multiple gestations while maintaining or improving overall pregnancy rates remains the most significant goal in the treatment of infertility”. Clearly the message from down under is not getting through, however, I for one was proud to be part of the Australian team that is clearly 8 years in front of the curve.

Dr Kylie de Boer



#29 Drop Dead Fred

Posted 01 January 2011 - 08:42 PM

QUOTE (mum2brodie)
Sure you cant put a price on it but it does hurt when people can get pregnant for free.


Totally agree.  I don't think people understand the physical cost of AC as well as the mental and physical emotions as well

How's the MS going Prue?

#30 emmsie78

Posted 02 January 2011 - 12:32 PM

Re affording IVF - for us the "extra" couple of years I worked whilst trying for number 1 (when I would far rather have been at home with a child) more than paid for our IVF treatment so I have never felt that we have suffered financially from doing IVF. Think of what you have earned through working if you are still trying for number 1 & it may not feel so expensive

#31 prue~c

Posted 02 January 2011 - 01:17 PM

Thanks for the responses everyone. IVF is difficult enough emotionally and physically, without the added burden of financial stress for so many people.

We financed our cycles by having  a credit card with a very high limit on it, which we used to pay for everything, until post transfer when we could claim our rebate from the government. If we had to pay the card off before the end of the cycle, we used the redraw facility on our home loan.

And we made sure it worked for us too - we transferred all of the points earned to frequent flyer points and flew first class on our honeymoon! You have to make some joy out of the pain, right?!

I would particularly like to thank Dr Kylie de Boer for her comments. I have spent a loooong time reading blogs, books, and IVF support groups from the US and can't get over how cavalier attitudes are over there with regard to transferring multiple embryos. Two seems to be the absolute minimum in most cycles. One particular blogger I had been following for several months transferred four embryos, resulting in a triplet pregnancy, but only one (very premature) baby at the end after two late miscarriages. Is this the outcome they want? But I guess when you are paying so much money, you are prepared to take risks in order to have a successful outcome.

I don't know if I would take such risks, but then I feel like a huge hypocrite transferring two after saying I never would. And I got the twins. Jackpot for us but I know it's not the preferred outcome.

Drop Dead Fred thanks for asking. I am feeling much better with the MS. I still throw up every day, and pop pills and inject like a seasoned junkie, but it is so much more bearable! I can actually function and go out, and work, and write, so I'm a lot better. I love feeling those little pokes and prods from the inside. It's very reassuring.

cheers

Prue



#32 Ards

Posted 06 January 2011 - 01:29 PM

QUOTE (knielly @ 27/12/2010, 07:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dear mummy, thank you for having me.

The card that was written by my ILs , from my IVF baby when he was born in the hospital. That card brought many tears to my eyes.

This made me cry, how lovely.

QUOTE (thegalwho @ 28/12/2010, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm very curious as to where you guys get your funds from?


To be honest I was thinking this also. DH and I are starting IVF this year and we worry about the finance side heavily. The initial testing has set us back thousands out of pocket so sadly this reason is why we can't jump on the IVF train sooner. We are saving every cent now to hopefully start mid this year.

Prue - glad you are feeling slightly better. Hope you had a great Christmas and New Year.

#33 ThatsNotMyName

Posted 17 January 2011 - 10:56 AM

Great to hear you've had some improvement Prue, I hope it continues for you original.gif

#34 Nateandjo

Posted 19 January 2011 - 10:36 AM

QUOTE (sassybabe @ 29/12/2010, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's easy to say that it's worth it when you have the children you wanted for so long. Spare a thought for those of us that go through the same and more and never get to bring home a baby - from the hospital or through adoption.

Though personally, it's not the money that bothers me as much as it is the years of my life I've spent trying to conceive instead of raising our child. Sure we've done lots of great things in the meantime, but this isn't the life I wanted for us.


Hi Sassy,
I just want to let you know that I think about childless women often and I always get that familiar pain in my heart, I am sorry life has dealt you such a harsh blow sad.gif thanks for sharing!

#35 cassnick

Posted 21 January 2011 - 03:40 AM

Wow sounds like my own story, fertility treatment is not cheap, but i'm so happy that we did it and i can see my twins smiles...(were born on 22/03/2010) biggrin.gif  biggrin.gif  bbaby.gif  bbaby.gif Hope you're doing well Pru. And Good luck to all of you.

Edited by cassnick, 21 January 2011 - 04:03 AM.


#36 publicimpatient

Posted 24 April 2011 - 12:49 PM

Prue , This article seems to indicate that you have private health insurance. Is this correct?

If this is the case, why did you choose to have your children in the public system  as today's Sydney Morning Herald suggests. http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/mother-of-all-jo...0423-1ds4y.html

#37 AstroBoy

Posted 24 April 2011 - 12:57 PM

QUOTE (publicimpatient @ 24/04/2011, 12:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Prue , This article seems to indicate that you have private health insurance. Is this correct?

If this is the case, why did you choose to have your children in the public system  as today's Sydney Morning Herald suggests. http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/mother-of-all-jo...0423-1ds4y.html
rolleyes.gif Those prices Prue quoted are more than likely out of pocket, after the Medicare rebate. PHI is not really worth it when doing IVF.
QUOTE
Total up front cost - $55,480

Actual out of pocket cost - $25,035
Edited to add quote.

And, everyone knows that public hospitals have the best NICU/SCN for prems.

$h!t stirring much.

Edited by AstroBoy, 24 April 2011 - 12:59 PM.


#38 Moo point

Posted 24 April 2011 - 01:43 PM

QUOTE (AstroBoy @ 24/04/2011, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
rolleyes.gif Those prices Prue quoted are more than likely out of pocket, after the Medicare rebate. PHI is not really worth it when doing IVF. Edited to add quote.

And, everyone knows that public hospitals have the best NICU/SCN for prems.

$h!t stirring much.


cclap.gif

Nice first post, by the way, publicimpatient. Maybe you should go back to living under a bridge.

Edited by ange_75, 24 April 2011 - 01:44 PM.


#39 publicimpatient

Posted 24 April 2011 - 05:49 PM

The story presented a problem: public maternity wards not being able to cope and the writer Prue Corlette was held up as an example of someone caught in the over burdened  system (yet also strangely not identified by Rachel Browne as a blogger for fairfax digital who has been reporting on these issues). Given that she has indicated she has private insurance this is a relevant question.  It seems that while the government is giving rebates for taking out private health insurance (and thus missing out on collecting taxes from high income earners), many privately insured women continue to use the public system and  thereby contributing to the overburdening of the system.

#40 Future-self

Posted 24 April 2011 - 06:16 PM

QUOTE (publicimpatient @ 24/04/2011, 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The story presented a problem: public maternity wards not being able to cope and the writer Prue Corlette was held up as an example of someone caught in the over burdened  system (yet also strangely not identified by Rachel Browne as a blogger for fairfax digital who has been reporting on these issues). Given that she has indicated she has private insurance this is a relevant question.  It seems that while the government is giving rebates for taking out private health insurance (and thus missing out on collecting taxes from high income earners), many privately insured women continue to use the public system and  thereby contributing to the overburdening of the system.

huh.gif
You do know that Private patients can go into public hospitals and the private fund then pays the public hospital thereby the public system actually gets a boost from PHI patients?
Also, very, very few PH funds assist with IVF costs. As the majority of services are done in clinics, all costs are the same for all patients. Whether you have private health insurance doesn't ever factor in to it.

And then there's the case of you resurrecting really old threads to attack people based on a presumption that this blogger has PHI when I have read a few of her topics and have no idea whether she does or not. Whatever your agenda is - take it elsewhere but for heavens sake, get your facts straight and educate yourself first.

#41 cinnabubble

Posted 24 April 2011 - 06:22 PM

Let's not forget that public hospitals are the only ones equipped with NICUs that can managed premature births, like Prue experienced. Had she been booked into pretty much any private hospital in Sydney, she still would have ended up with her twins in a public NICU.

sh*tstirring much, newby?

#42 auntiesocial

Posted 24 April 2011 - 06:40 PM

You obviously do not realise that a public hospital actually makes money out of private patients coming into the public system. My anecdata suggest that many public hospital admissions staff actually encourage women to use their private health insurance to help the public system out.

Maybe do a bit more reading before you come in next time.

#43 Fourteenyears

Posted 24 April 2011 - 06:48 PM

Good grief idiot troll, apart from the many ignorant assumptions you seem to have made, did you not even read the original post that you went to so much effort to drag up?  

IVF is expensive.  It means that sometimes there isn't enough money left over for the luxury of paying thousands of dollars for slightly nicer food and decor.  

Not to mention the above sensible points that giving birth in a public hospital doesn't mean that private health insurance wasn't involved, and that needing a NICU automatically means a transfer to the public system anyway.

And WTF does the blogger's place of employment have to do with her medical care anyway?

So in summary, unless you can manage to make a genuine point rather than just grinding a weird axe, sod off.

#44 Guest_Bubbalicious9_*

Posted 24 April 2011 - 06:50 PM

.

Edited by Bubbalicious9, 28 October 2011 - 03:32 PM.


#45 F.E.B.E

Posted 24 April 2011 - 07:49 PM

QUOTE
The story presented a problem: public maternity wards not being able to cope and the writer Prue Corlette was held up as an example of someone caught in the over burdened system (yet also strangely not identified by Rachel Browne as a blogger for fairfax digital who has been reporting on these issues)
.

Just to clear this part up, Prue's services as a writer are engaged on a freelance basis by Fairfax Digital's Essential Baby and she is not an employee of  the company. The Sun Herald is part of Fairfax Media, a separate division. In any case, it is all irrelevant to her circumstances as a mother giving birth to her children.

I assume Prue, like all pregnant women, evaluated her local hospitals and care providers before making a decision whether to go public or private.

Many women hold some form of private health insurance but do not use it for maternity services, myself included, for various practical reasons such as having a top public hospital nearby, preferring midwife-led care, etc.

In any case I thought it was an important story for the media to share, especially with a new state government in power who are responsible for ensuring adequate maternity services across Sydney.

#46 fooiesmum

Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:30 PM

I read the article, I understand that there are only a certain number of NICU beds available and if you go into pre-term labour you will be moved to the hospital with NICU beds available.

I remember at our labour tour being told that if bub needed a NICU they would be moved where ever a bed was available, closest if possible - but if not well so be it.    I would think the hospital in offering 3 choices was seeing if Prue had family in either regional location which may have made staying near her babies easier.

If Prue had being seeing a private OB/GYN or IM they would have been able to transfer with her to deliver the babies so she would have had the continuity of care she was hoping for.  I understand that the Dr & midwife had other patients to care for at their hospital and are unable to adjust their work load to suit individual patients unlike a private OB/IM

I understand that the situation is not ideal - but the babies received the best care possible, certainly if the travel was too difficult Prue could have spoken to patient liaison personnel and tried to find accommodation either at the hospital, on hospital grounds or locally, I understand most hospitals have relative accommodation?

With many smaller (not tertiary) hospitals placing restrictions on patients for a variety of reasons, many women have to commute to have their babies.  For example any women classed as "high risk" such as having a BMI of 35 and over is unable to birth at Hornsby, Mona Vale (when it's open) or Manly Hospital - leaving them no option but to birth at Royal North Shore through the OB's clinic only.  




#47 LynnyP

Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:56 PM

Thank God for posters like public inpatient unveiling the venal conspiracies between , well I'm not sure but probably the Government, and Prue Corlette. As a taxpayer I am very grateful. Now lots of people will be in here soon going on about logic and availability and all that rot but we all know the scientists are neck deep in all good conspiracies. Could you please broaden your horizons, public inpatient my love, and have a look at Roswell and 911. I would be well grateful. I also think that there is some sort of underhand something going on with Naplan.

#48 HeatherRob

Posted 25 April 2011 - 10:07 AM

The problem with a lack of NICU beds isnt just here in Australia it is also the same in other countries. In Nottingham UK they have 2 very large hospitals and they both have a NICU and if they are both full then it is off to Birmingham or the nearest bed that is free. It is due to the cost of keeping those spaces open and ready to take a patient without affecting the care of the opther patients, as with everything it comes down to money.

#49 ivfhappy

Posted 17 May 2011 - 08:11 AM

i have been lucky, in my last two attempts had both sucessfull outcomes, james born april 2010 and our new son to arrive on the 26th August.

But I totally understand how you feel,  As I was the working member of the couple, I was the one who forked out $7,000 in out of pocket expenses, as my hubby dosent make ends meet with his small business.


AS it was his fertility that was the question, i still resent having to fork out all the $$$, but love having our son and am awaiting our next, but should i feel resentfull, as i paid for it all and continue to pay ?


has anyone done the same ?

ohmy.gif

#50 Wacky Wobbler

Posted 18 May 2011 - 03:11 PM

QUOTE (ivfhappy @ 17/05/2011, 08:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i have been lucky, in my last two attempts had both sucessfull outcomes, james born april 2010 and our new son to arrive on the 26th August.

But I totally understand how you feel,  As I was the working member of the couple, I was the one who forked out $7,000 in out of pocket expenses, as my hubby dosent make ends meet with his small business.


AS it was his fertility that was the question, i still resent having to fork out all the $$$, but love having our son and am awaiting our next, but should i feel resentfull, as i paid for it all and continue to pay ?


has anyone done the same ?

ohmy.gif


But...................... you got a beautiful baby and 2 pregnancies out of that money. I would pay all the money in the world for that, and wouldn't care if DH didn't contribute a cent.




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