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Gifted & talented primary years #23


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#1 Therese

Posted 02 September 2011 - 12:55 PM

New thread time original.gif

Your last thread is Here

Sorry that your last thread got so long original.gif  As you know Georgie Boy is no longer a moderator, so while we find a replacement, feel free to either pm me or any other member of the moderating team if you need a hand with anything original.gif

#2 LiveLife

Posted 02 September 2011 - 01:31 PM

gold! yeah me

Edited by LiveLife, 24 October 2011 - 12:15 AM.


#3 sebela

Posted 02 September 2011 - 02:54 PM

One last time for the new thread :

Adelaide people - we are having a play in a park this Sunday afternoon, anyone who wants to come is welcome, including the lurkers! Just PM me for details. It's in a central location as we have people a fair distance in every direction.

#4 baddmammajamma

Posted 02 September 2011 - 04:30 PM

Bronze. Woo. Hoo. Someone has to be third!

A quick check in from here. J had an outstanding week of new classes with Grade 1. Today she went by herself, with no support, which was a wonderful big step. If I haven't stressed it enough already, I LOVE her school. The teachers are just doing everything possible to keep her interested and make her successful.

#5 happy2bme

Posted 02 September 2011 - 04:37 PM

I posted a while ago about suspecting my son was gifted etc.  Anyway things have progressed & his teacher decided that she could no longer handle his behaviour even though I explained to her that he was bored & that's why he was being disruptive - her response was he needs to learn to be bored - yeah ok that's helpful. So we saw a child psychologist who is looking at either ADHD or gifted & talented (she hasnt seen our son yet though), she will be speaking to James teacher & observe him in the classroom. Then she wants to do an IQ test & go forward from there.

I guess what I want to know is what should I expect in regards to the psychologist observing James & the IQ test & then into the future should James be gifted & talented.

#6 baddmammajamma

Posted 02 September 2011 - 06:27 PM

QUOTE (happy2bme @ 02/09/2011, 04:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I posted a while ago about suspecting my son was gifted etc.  Anyway things have progressed & his teacher decided that she could no longer handle his behaviour even though I explained to her that he was bored & that's why he was being disruptive - her response was he needs to learn to be bored - yeah ok that's helpful. So we saw a child psychologist who is looking at either ADHD or gifted & talented (she hasnt seen our son yet though), she will be speaking to James teacher & observe him in the classroom. Then she wants to do an IQ test & go forward from there.

I guess what I want to know is what should I expect in regards to the psychologist observing James & the IQ test & then into the future should James be gifted & talented.


Hi happy2beme:

I hope that the psychologist is not treating your son's situation as an "either or" because it is quite possible to have ADHD (or other special needs) and be gifted. I will have to defer to the other parents here who are far more knowledgeable about ADHD, but the assessment process for it and giftedness are not one and the same, so I hope your son is getting a really comprehensive assessment. Are you seeking the counsel of a paed/developmental paed as well? You might want to consider that if ADHD is on the table.

The teacher interview can be a valuable part of the input. Sounds like James's teacher is not "totally on board," so perhaps you could stress to her that you are trying to find answers to help the school understand him better and that you are so appreciative of her candid input (even if you feel like gagging!). If I were you, I wouldn't necessarily mention ADHD or giftedness, as you might be more apt to get useful information.

From what we've experienced with our daughter, the psychological observation is done as discreetly as possible. Hopefully, James won't feel that he is under a microscope or being singled out in any way.

IQ testing is really just a fun series of brain twisters (well, that's how we packaged it to our daughter). Most of the kids I know (my daughter included) who have had the testing done have found it fun. A lot depends on the psychologist doing the testing and how much of a rapport they can build with the child.

What to expect for the future will really depend on a series of things, including: the findings and recommendations of the professionals who assess him, how willing his school is to accommodate his gifts/needs or gifts & needs. Some schools are very comfortable with and supporting gifted kids (even though ones whose giftedness manifests itself in poor behavior), while others struggle. Are there other parents of older G&T kids at James's school who you could speak with to hear their experiences?
Is there someone leading the G&T program at the school who would be willing to talk informally with you, even before you have the results of his IQ test?

Good luck getting some answers that will help James have a more positive school experience.


#7 Jessie01

Posted 02 September 2011 - 06:59 PM

Hi Sebla - just letting you know we will be at a Father's day lunch on Sunday, so wont be able to make it.

#8 lotsa

Posted 02 September 2011 - 07:07 PM

I will be in Adelaide Sept/Oct holidays next yr so I can come to a meet up then.

#9 lotsa

Posted 02 September 2011 - 07:14 PM

happy2bme What do you suspect is going on with your son? Generally parents tend to be right. My biggest piece of advice would read up as much as you can that way whatever the diagnosis is you will know if it is a good fit.

#10 sebela

Posted 02 September 2011 - 07:20 PM

Happy2BMe - BMJ has covered pretty much everything I would have said. Other than ADHD and gifted can co-exist AND highly gifted and bored witless can look like ADHD. And highly gifted, bored witless plus ADHD is a recipe for disaster. You want to make sure you psych knows their stuff in this regard!

Also, how old is your DS? As we have discussed many many times here the WPPSI is not the best test for a 5-6 yr old who is being tested for giftedness as there is a very high risk of hitting ceilings and not finding out what they are really capable of. After 6 he can be tested on the WISC and hopefully not have those problems.

Lotsa - what dates are your holidays? The SA ones can be out of sync with the eastern states. We should book in a time now as it's looming fast (and I am going to Sydney for half of the hols).

Jessie - sorry we won't see you, hopefully in the holidays!

#11 happy2bme

Posted 04 September 2011 - 03:26 PM

Thanks BMJ for your response.  

I guess to answer your questions - the psychologists exact words were "James appears to fit into a couple of boxes one being ADHD and the other being Gifted and Talented".  I would assume she is looking at both & will make the determinations after the observation, discussion with the teacher & IQ test.

Ive not mentioned to his teacher nor the principal regarding what the psychologist is looking at.  The teacher is being slightly difficult as in when ive told her James is bored she says James needs to learn to be bored - no offer of other work or ways to engage him etc.  She just wants to teach the way she teaches & not adapt.  I have however spoken to the principal & I got a completely different impression of her so I guess time will tell as to how it pans out.  I have told them both about the psychologist & that she will want to go to the school but not what she is looking at.

Havent considered paed at this stage but will look into that - will i need a referral?

Im not sure if there are other kids at the school that are considered G&T but I guess I could find out so that I can see what their experiences have been.

Lotsa - James has always been a child that needs a lot of stimulation & is eager to learn about everything.  The problem we find is that not many people can work with him to keep him engaged in "school" learning. I had looked up G&T previously but dismissed it as me looking far too much into things & he was just a normal 5 year old boy. The other reason I dismissed it was because he doesnt appear to be "advanced" in reading or other school activities. However now the more I read into it the more it appears that those things dont necessarily mean they arent G&T.


#12 Kay1

Posted 04 September 2011 - 09:16 PM

Hi all,

I am so absent these days you probably don't even remember me but I just wanted to pop in and say thanks (to Sebela I think) for the recommendation for the Life of Fred books. I gave DS one today as he was at a loose end and he couldn't put it down. He stayed up way too late reading it. Its so nice to have him excited about something other than Zac flippin Power! laughing2.gif

Other than that all is good. I am feeling like maybe I should be doing more in terms of getting DS extended at school but he honestly seems to be happy and not having any real issues so I am letting sleeping dogs lie. Its only when I go to help with reading etc that I see the gulf between what he can/is doing and what the other kids are up to that I feel like I should do more. I plan on talking to the teacher about what (if anything) is being done in terms of extension at parent teacher interviews next term.

In the meantime his sport, playing with friends, computer game obsession and his hourly injuries are keeping him (and me) busy enough!

I hope all is well with everyone.

Edited by Kay1, 04 September 2011 - 09:17 PM.


#13 Elka

Posted 06 September 2011 - 11:12 AM

Sorry, this didn't quite make it onto page 1


Book ideas for children in FYOS reading beyond their age level

These books were suggested by posters on this thread – not every book will be suitable for *your* child. Some of them were also suggested as being suited for older children in terms of content.

5yo fiction authors
Roald Dahl
Margaret Atwood
Enid Blyton
Alison Lester

5yo fiction stand-alone titles, including classics
Alice in Wonderland (Lewis Carroll)
Peter Pan (J M Barrie)
Treasure Island (R L Stevenson)
Robinson Crusoe (Daniel Defoe)
Charlotte’s Web (E B White)
Stuart Little (E B White)
Finn Family Moomintroll (Tove Jansson)
Pippi Longstocking (Astrid Lindgren)
101 Dalmations (the original book by Dodie Smith, not the Disney version)
Flat Stanley (Jeff Brown)
The Land of Green Ginger (Noel Langley)
The Muddle Headed Wombat (Ruth Park)
Kumiko and the Dragon (Briony Stewart)
Weslandia (Paul Fleischman)

5yo fiction series
Harry Potter (J K Rowling)
Chronicles of Narnia (C S Lewis)
Paddington (Michael Bond)
Dinosaur Cove (Rex Stone)
Tashi (Anna Fienberg)
Rowan of Rin (Emily Rodda)
Deltora Quest (Emily Rodda)
Horse Crazy (Alison Lester)
Underland Chronicles (Paul Stewart and Chris Riddle)
Far Flung Adventures (Paul Stewart and Chris Riddle)
Selby (Duncan Ball)
Emily Eyefinger (Duncan Ball)
Audrey of the Outback (Christine Harris)
Geronimo Stilton (published as being by Geronimo Stilton)
Tumtum and Nutmeg (Emily Bearn)
Zac Power

5yo publishers’ fiction series
Usborne Early/First Readers
Aussie Nibbles and Aussie Bites (Penguin)
Magic School Bus chapter books (Scholastic)
Fairy Realm
Puppy Place
Magic Pony
Early Saddle Club
Go Girl
Beast Quest
Rainbow Magic

5yo non-fiction
Children’s version of A Short History of Nearly Everything (Bill Bryson)
Horrible Histories
Usborne and Dorling Kindersley
The Magic Schoolbus for introducing 'facts' in the context of a story.
Dorling Kindersley 'First Atlas'

5yo poetry
Old Possum’s Book of Practical Cats (T S Eliot)

Additional resources
http://trevorcairney.blogspot.com/2010/07/...to-chapter.html
Various State Premiers’ Reading Challenge lists, e.g.
http://www.education.vic.gov.au/prc/books/default.htm
https://products.schools.nsw.edu.au/prc/booklist/home.html
School and local librarians
Independent bookshop with a good children’s section

Ages 6-7
(The following list for ages six to seven came from Kyrrie, and included some books others had listed as suitable for younger readers. I have taken those out.)
A Wrinkle in Time (Madeleine l'Engle)
My Sister the Vampire (I'm sure it's trash but I haven't had time to read them yet)
EJ12 (probably suited for more younger kids but DD was 6 when they first came out)
39 Clues (Rick Riordan)
Main Street (Ann M Martin)
My Story historical novels
Odo Hirsch (esp Darius Bell and the Glitter Pool)
Matty Forever and Bill Rules (Elizabeth Fensham)
Nim's Island (Wendy Orr)
Anne of Green Gables (L M Montogmery)
Allie Finkle's Rules for Girls (Meg Cabot)
Classics like Black Beauty, Heidi, Robin Hood
The Secret Garden (Frances Hodgson Burnett)


#14 sebela

Posted 06 September 2011 - 12:03 PM

Kay it's tricky sometimes isn't it to know how much to do? I know that DD could actually be learning and extending herself so much more than she is. But she's happy and time is short and they spend all that time at school I feel like they should be able to play afterschool...

#15 sebela

Posted 08 September 2011 - 02:47 PM

I just saw that a new section has been started for FYOS. Are we able to keep just the one thread for G&T primary years?

Haven't we all gone quiet in here? I have kind of come to the end of my own reading frenzy. DD2 has finally started school and it's going well (and school is supporting her going straight to yr1 next year)... DD1 is half way through her ADHD/Dyslexia/??? assessment, so I am dying to know the results of that. DD3 is coming along nicely...

#16 mamaknits

Posted 08 September 2011 - 03:08 PM

Hi!111

It HAS gone all quiet original.gif
I am in the thick of it all - the search for the "right" school, I mean. I gave up a long time ago on the search for that elusive "perfect school". We'll settle for "right" or "close to right" Tounge1.gif We may be coming to the end of the search - light atthe end of the tunnel.

We are doing well. A is a happy little chappy. We have Letterland hat parade this week - tomorrow in fact. Some time this evening we will have to construct a hat for him. he wants to be R for rocket. My husband has grand plans for the rocket. I am leaving them to it Tounge1.gif Just have to bbuy materials later.

We had our debrief yesterday for the testing done last month. It went well. We didn't have many questions but it was reassuring hearing him say what we already knew.



#17 Tsikos

Posted 12 September 2011 - 10:57 PM

A letterland hat parade - awesome! Do you realise just how abnormally awesome your preschool is?

For us pre-school is a give-in as if you don't go to the one attached to school you never meet anyone in your reception class. I don't know why this is such a big thing for me as DS#1 went to school knowing no-one in Sydney and DD would have done exactly the same (except she would have know the older years through DS#...)

Anyway, doing the awful 'hunt for a childcare' thing ATM for DS#2(3) and I haven't found a centre I've not shuddered when leaving. My children like to do things, they need stuff. They like structure, they love to learn. My oldest has ADHD, genetically it's a lottery if DS#2 has it too. Somedays I think not but others I think it's a given. He needs things he can constantly and freely move to and use imagination. I 'almost' stood up verbally for one wee mite in a Kindy room who was being told off for using the large blocks (to make furniture) in the cubby house. I thought wonderful biggrin.gif. The carer only saw the wrong toy in the wrong spot sad.gif We're not going there if I get the job I've applied for!

On the ADHD thing happy2bme, your DS could easily have both, mine does! Our story goes something along the lines of: intense baby, toddler, pre-schooler able to multi-task and do 24 piece jigsaws easily at 2 yrs etc etc. Would never sit still and couldn't be contained. I was miraculously lucky in that my GP at teh time had 2 gifted sons and recognized it for giftedness. She encouraged me to join NSWAGTC and go to their playgroup (where instantly I saw he 'almost' fit in, but fit in 100% more than a normal playgroup). I went on to get DS tested and it showed he was exceptionally gifted. I was happy. Intense spirited gifted child. Problem solved.

Then at school after a fairly successful Kindy year (NSW) he flat-lined and was in danger of not meeting outcomes by yr 2, yet I had this report that said he should be flying rockets.... Comments in reports were fails to complete work, easily distractible etc but it was the comment of a wee girl in his class that "Max always watches the computers" and "Max always looks out the window" together with a fantastic seminar on 'gifted with something else going on' that put the bits together and led to us having him assessed by a child psychiatrist over a few weeks for Inattentive-ADHD (or ADD) - DS was eventually diagnosed with combined-ADHD, both the hyperactive form and the inattentive, a classical 'dreamy' child. Once medication started the results were instant. He skyrocketed from level 11 reader to extension in 1 term. He now easily tops the class and calls the medication his 'ignore drugs' as they help him ignore all the 'stuff'.

My gut is to say that if your DS is achieving or at least able to achieve in the classroom environment then his behavior is probably classical bored gifted child acting out. However, if he's acting out and his product isn't matching his potential then he's possibly gifted with ADHD.

You'll only know with an assessment for each condition.



#18 mamaknits

Posted 13 September 2011 - 02:18 PM

With daycare or preschool, Tsikos, I have learned that it is important to go with your gut feel. if you shudder when leaving, it is probably not a good sign. also, a "good" place may not be good forever. they may not change but your child might. so what is good when he is 3 may no longer be good for him when he is 4. I do not see it as a big deal, personally, for a to have met his kindergarten classmates before kindy. Given that we are considering a school 40 mins drive away, he would have met none of his classmates if he goes there. i do not see that as a problem at all.


#19 sebela

Posted 13 September 2011 - 02:25 PM

mamaknits - not knowing the other kids at FYOS is not too big a deal if others don't either. If 90-99% of your class have all been together for a year or more though then it CAN matter. This is a problem we face with DD#3 too, if we don't use the school's preschool she will be the odd kid out in a class that have been together for 2yrs. From my understanding the school you are looking at do not have such a high ratio of kids coming exclusively from their own preschool, I think 1/3 or more come from elsewhere.

#20 mamaknits

Posted 13 September 2011 - 05:51 PM

Ah, perhaps it is different in the case of your daughter's school, Sebela. The schools I have looked at here that have about 50% or less coming in from their own preschool. Nothing to say the other kdis don't all already have friends from their previous preschool but I think it is less of an issue if teh child in question is fairly sociable and makes friends easily, and more of an issue if the child is shy and quiet.



#21 sebela

Posted 13 September 2011 - 06:49 PM

I think Tsikos has the same scenario, it's very common here even in public schools for there to be a dedicated preschool that everyone goes to.

#22 Tsikos

Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:18 PM

Yes, that's exactly correct Sebela. Pre-school is the first year of school at our school. Only 1 child in reception came from outside of the school. I'd hate to be that child FDOS!

#23 mother hen

Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:21 PM

[

Edited by mother hen, 13 September 2011 - 08:28 PM.


#24 mother hen

Posted 13 September 2011 - 08:24 PM

QUOTE (happy2bme @ 04/09/2011, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks BMJ for your response.  

I guess to answer your questions - the psychologists exact words were "James appears to fit into a couple of boxes one being ADHD and the other being Gifted and Talented".  I would assume she is looking at both & will make the determinations after the observation, discussion with the teacher & IQ test.

Ive not mentioned to his teacher nor the principal regarding what the psychologist is looking at.  The teacher is being slightly difficult as in when ive told her James is bored she says James needs to learn to be bored - no offer of other work or ways to engage him etc.  She just wants to teach the way she teaches & not adapt.  I have however spoken to the principal & I got a completely different impression of her so I guess time will tell as to how it pans out.  I have told them both about the psychologist & that she will want to go to the school but not what she is looking at.

Havent considered paed at this stage but will look into that - will i need a referral?

Im not sure if there are other kids at the school that are considered G&T but I guess I could find out so that I can see what their experiences have been.

Lotsa - James has always been a child that needs a lot of stimulation & is eager to learn about everything.  The problem we find is that not many people can work with him to keep him engaged in "school" learning. I had looked up G&T previously but dismissed it as me looking far too much into things & he was just a normal 5 year old boy. The other reason I dismissed it was because he doesnt appear to be "advanced" in reading or other school activities. However now the more I read into it the more it appears that those things dont necessarily mean they arent G&T.


Hi happy2beme

My son was always considered to be a "bright" active little boy. His PP teacher started asking questions in term 3 as DS could still not write his name or remember the letters. After having his eyes tested (developmental optometrist) and having 20 weeks of vision therapy and glasses, things still didn't improve (vision therapy did work for a number of vision problems). He had failed the dyslexia test ( a very basic test done by qualified special-ed teacher ). I then took him to a child psych. She did all the appropriate tests including the IQ ( this is not the same as adult IQ which can only be done after 16 yrs - so I've been told). The tests are measured on percentiles. DS measured in the 96th percentile for memory and sequencing but in the 7th percentile for letter recognition. His numeracy skills are about 70th percentile. So although we all knew he was a very bright boy with an amazing memory (and who found it hard to sit still), he never showed any signs on paper. I cried when he was formally diagnosed - my beautiful little boy had a learning disability that could not be fixed and he would not grow out of. But I very quickly realized that there are so many other kids out there who are much worse off than him.

With a huge amount of help at school and home, he has come a long way. He is in year 6 now and is tested orally most of the time. Topped his class in a science fair and is doing really well in all subjects except literacy. His dyslexia has kept him out of the gifted and talented classes as he just could not keep up with the reading and writing. But he is a very happy, eager to learn, well liked kid. His teachers have all loved him and wish more kids had his enthusiasm for life. He did grow out of the mild hyperactivity, which is often the case. He is still very active and full of energy, but is able to control himself in class and save it for the playground.

When he was in Yr 1,2 & 3 the school library helped make up a box of reading books that had large text and short sentences but were also factual. He has always been into nature and science so we made sure his books would be interesting for him. I wonder if this is something you could maybe do for you son.

Hopefully the psych will help to convince the school that your son needs "more" from them if they want him to behave better. A bored child will often act up, especially when they are only 5 yrs old!!!  My sons yr 1 & 2 teachers would often get the whole class out to do a lap of the oval whenever DS got to fidgety. So they all got a quick break and some fresh air and DS got to run off that pent up energy (he usually did 2 laps). A good teacher will realize how little things like this can help the whole class.

If you get no joy I would look into finding a school who will embrace your son for his strengths and help him with his weaknesses.

Sorry this is so long.

Cheers and good luck. Keep us posted!

#25 misseb

Posted 13 September 2011 - 10:41 PM

Hi All

Has anyone had a child that has skipped a grade (or two) in the first couple of years of school and is willing to share experiences - good or bad? We are currently facing this dilemma and would love any feedback from those parents who have already been there.

Thanks

Em




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