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Non-vaccinated kids - how does it impact your life?


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#1 Emily Thorne

Posted 10 January 2012 - 06:31 PM

Hi,

I am posting in this section so as not to start a great debate, but more to ask those who have chosen not to vaccinate (for whatever reason) how it has affected their lives, in a practical sense?

I have a friend who is about to have her first child and who is considering not vaccinating. My kids are vaccinated.  In saying this, I'm not judging her but am just curious if it makes things difficult later in life, since I have no experience of this?

For example (and I know that this will sound simplistic), if I think of where I have had to show my kids' vaccination records, it would include the gym creche and daycare.  If your child hasn't been vaccinated, then have you had problems with childcare?

Also, what about travel?  Have you avoided countries where it is recommended that you get vaccinations up to date, eg Bali?

It's just a really genuine question, out of curiosity.  Not trolling.
Thank you for anything that you would like to share with me.

#2 Sockergris

Posted 10 January 2012 - 06:36 PM

My kids are vaccinated but I know that the non vaccinated kids at our school are excluded from attending for a certain period of time when a vaccine preventable disease breaks out.

#3 naturalgoodness

Posted 10 January 2012 - 06:45 PM

My children are not vaccinated. They have attended gym creche, childcare and school. We travel to Bali regularly.

We have completed the objection form, had it signed by the doctor and lodged it with medicare. We are advised at any location that if there is an outbreak we will be excluded and are fine with this.

As the kids gets older it becomes talked about less and less and people no longer ask. It hasn't effected us in any negative way at all.


#4 Belly82

Posted 10 January 2012 - 06:48 PM

QUOTE (naturalgoodness @ 10/01/2012, 07:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My children are not vaccinated. They have attended gym creche, childcare and school. We travel to Bali regularly.

We have completed the objection form, had it signed by the doctor and lodged it with medicare. We are advised at any location that if there is an outbreak we will be excluded and are fine with this.

As the kids gets older it becomes talked about less and less and people no longer ask. It hasn't effected us in any negative way at all.



same here! i have a 5yo, 3yo and 9mth old all not vaccinated at all.... no problems here. We have the form as PP mentioned above and have lodged with medicare and we too are totally fine if they need to be excluded for whatever reason due to a breakout etc

#5 Emily Thorne

Posted 10 January 2012 - 06:51 PM

Thank you for this.  She's a nurse so can weigh up the medical pros and cons on her own, but I wondered if I could share any practical situations with her.  This helps a lot.

#6 CubaLulu

Posted 10 January 2012 - 07:48 PM

I run a FDC and I will not admit children who have not been vaccinated. I know of many other Family Day Carers who feel the same. So whilst it may not affect them in a LDC centre, it may limit other choices for child care.

#7 CubaLulu

Posted 10 January 2012 - 08:12 PM

It's really quite simple, it's my home, and my business, and my choice to protect my family and other clients. There are no regulations against me choosing to make this decision. Just as you have to prove your vaccination status (either the immunization schedule filled out by the doctor, or your conscious objector forms) when applying for CCB or CCR; all my clients are informed upon enquiring about care with me that they will need to provide a copy of their up to date immunization schedule as I don't admit non vaccinated children. All of my clients (and I have a long waiting list) are happy to comply and are grateful that their children are protected by my policy. It is hardly uninformed or small minded to make a decision about who will be in care in my own home.

#8 CubaLulu

Posted 10 January 2012 - 08:20 PM

QUOTE (fertile woman @ 10/01/2012, 08:13 PM)
14180760[/url]']
And please let us know which area scheme you work for so we can check out that policy for ourselves.  original.gif


I think you may have misunderstood me.  This is not a scheme policy, it is my policy. Family Day Carers have the right to choose exactly which clients they wish to admit into their homes. Just as I choose not to care for babies under 6 months old (my programme is for predominately 12 months - 3 years as this is the age area I specialize in) I can also make my own choices re: immunization. FDC is a business that is regulated under the umbrella of the National Standard Child Care Regulations, however, we are also our own business and we can choose to have whomever we wish as our clients.

#9 ubermum

Posted 10 January 2012 - 08:25 PM

QUOTE (fertile woman @ 10/01/2012, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And please let us know which area scheme you work for so we can check out that policy for ourselves.  original.gif

I think given fdc is run out of a persons home, it is her choice as to who she accepts or not. My fdc carer decided not to take on a child who has is anaphylactic to a certain food type. She did not want the added responsibility of ensuring her house was 100% safe. She will take on kids with allergies, just not those whose allergy response is anaphylaxis. Her house, her rules. I don't see how the policy of the agency running a fdc could make someone take on a child they didn't want to for whatever reason. Further, there is no breach of confidentiality if she has a blanket "no vax no care at my house" policy.

#10 peppersmum

Posted 10 January 2012 - 08:28 PM

I have two vaccinated and two unvaccinated kids and I have had no issues as yet, all the same. I have had one of my unvaccinated children attend day care for over a year now and I had no issues enrolling her and there has never been any illnesses in the centre she needed to be ecluded from (but I would welcome them being excluded!). My two older kids also did not have their 4yr old vaccines and we had no issues with school entry.

We haven't travelled anywhere they needed vaccines fot but I would personally avoid countries that needed vaccines ... Or go when they are much older and can have the necessary vaccines slowly.

I do not believe being a non-vaxer is for everyone and needs good solid research and commitment to a certain lifestyle to do it with confidence.  Hope your friend finds the necessary information to make an informed decision original.gif

Edited by peppersmum, 10 January 2012 - 08:29 PM.


#11 -Emissary-

Posted 10 January 2012 - 08:30 PM

QUOTE (fertile woman @ 10/01/2012, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do you actually have a choice?   I think it would contravene the regulations, but I will check that out tomorrow. Not only that but it's fairly narrow minded and uninformed.  It's actually not the business of any other parent whether children in care are vaccinated or not and there is a privacy act which covers the sharing of this information.

"Are your children fully vaccinated" was NOT a question I was asked before my children were accepted into FDC.  The paperwork was filled in after we had been accepted.  So how do you go about sifting out vaccinators from non-vaccinators?


All the childcares that DS have attended have always requested that I provide them with proof of DS's up to date vacs. As he is vaccinated, I have no qualms in doing so.

I don't know what happens to families who do not vaccinate.

#12 peppersmum

Posted 10 January 2012 - 08:35 PM

QUOTE (-Emissary- @ 10/01/2012, 09:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
All the childcares that DS have attended have always requested that I provide them with proof of DS's up to date vacs. As he is vaccinated, I have no qualms in doing so.

I don't know what happens to families who do not vaccinate.


We provide our CO status which is sent out my the vaccination register (medicare). Simple really. Other than family day care (as the pp pointed out), all child care centres cannot discriminate against unvaccinated kids (they do exclude them though if the illnesses break out in the centre).

original.gif


#13 Chelli

Posted 10 January 2012 - 08:37 PM

Please keep this thread relevant to the OP's question about vaccination rather than a debate about family day care.

Thanks

#14 mum@work

Posted 10 January 2012 - 08:40 PM

The council child care centres here (which have now changed hands) required all children to be immunised. I don't know if it was against some government policy or not, but they did it.

Met schools exclude non immunised children when there is an outbreak, but I wouldn't think there'd be too many other issues.


#15 liveworkplay

Posted 10 January 2012 - 08:45 PM

I selectively and delay vaccinate. the only problem I have run into is with the immunisation people/medicare/foa themselves. As I do not fall into a neat little box ie fully vaccinated or non vaccinated their systems can't cope. I have had to fill in a consientious objector form for DD3 as I was sick of having to get my GP to ring them to say, yes she was to be vaccinated, just not to schedule. Each time they would give us 2 mths and then we would go through the whole circus of letters "we will cut off your CCB/CR if she is not up to date" and me having to ring my ever patient GP yet again.

So technically I am a non vaxer with 2 fully vaccinated kids and once up to date (finally) except for Rotavax (which I declined but that was a circus  in itself) and Varciella (which she may have later)

So my experience is that if you do not fit into their neat little boxes, you are forced to one way or another as their systems cannot cope with anything out of the ordinary. But besides that, no problems at all.


As for FDC, I would assume that they would be able to pick and choose their clients to suit their business. As a PP said, if they did not want a child of a certain age, then they would be able to stipulate as much, same with vacination status and the like.

QUOTE
So you can choose also to exclude children of a parent with HIV, Hepatitis B or C, from a Gay Marriage, Indigenous status, English as a second language?


i think that is a huge over reaction to the issue. But I am sure that a FDC could refuse care for a child with medical needs if they felt they could not meet the necessary duty of care for that particular case.

#16 peppersmum

Posted 10 January 2012 - 08:50 PM

QUOTE (Alpha_Chook @ 10/01/2012, 09:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Eamons daycare doesn't accept children who aren't fully vaccinated and it is stated on their enrolment form and pre-enrolment info booklet

ETA....it is not a family daycare


Many centres state it in a way that sounds like you need to be vaxed but all it means is you need to provide your vaccination status (CO for non-vaxers). I think you would find if you asked specifically they would say they accept non-vaxed kids wink.gif Personally I think they word it like that to deter people applying and make the rest of the parents think all kids there are vaxed  cool.gif

#17 CubaLulu

Posted 10 January 2012 - 08:51 PM

QUOTE (fertile woman @ 10/01/2012, 08:29 PM)
14180853[/url]']
FDC wait lists are generally small, you don't see a large percentage of the population.


Of the 5 people who have called me with non vaccinated children, not one has had any problem in light of my policy. All have simply looked elsewhere for care. So no, I don't see a large percentage of the population, but I have come across a few anti vaccinators. Luckily for me, all have been understanding of my personal choice (just as I am not judgemental or rude to them about their personal choice for their children and family); unlike so many anti-vaccinators here who seem to want to take my choice personally and attack me for it!
I didn't post here to start a slinging match. I don't judge you for what you do in your home, and I have a right to choose who enters my home on a daily basis. I was simply posting in answer to the OP, because I know i'mnot the only FDC provider who has this policy, and as such it may be something that may affect non vaccinated children in future. There are plenty to FDC providers who happily take non vaccinated children, however, so it might just mean looking a little longer to find the right fit for their family.


#18 peppersmum

Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:15 PM

liveworkplay yes I too have had issues with medicare (and know many other CO's who have), the normal issues are CO forms getting 'lost' in the mail ... I sent mine 3 times, first two times they were 'lost', 3rd time I sent it registered mail and amazingly that time they received it wink.gif


#19 JAPNII

Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:16 PM

QUOTE (CubaLulu @ 10/01/2012, 09:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Of the 5 people who have called me with non vaccinated children, not one has had any problem in light of my policy. All have simply looked elsewhere for care. So no, I don't see a large percentage of the population, but I have come across a few anti vaccinators. Luckily for me, all have been understanding of my personal choice (just as I am not judgemental or rude to them about their personal choice for their children and family); unlike so many anti-vaccinators here who seem to want to take my choice personally and attack me for it!
I didn't post here to start a slinging match. I don't judge you for what you do in your home, and I have a right to choose who enters my home on a daily basis. I was simply posting in answer to the OP, because I know i'mnot the only FDC provider who has this policy, and as such it may be something that may affect non vaccinated children in future. There are plenty to FDC providers who happily take non vaccinated children, however, so it might just mean looking a little longer to find the right fit for their family.

In Victoria, it doesn't appear to be illegal to discriminate on the basis of vaccination status in any case as this is not a personal characteristic protected by law. Don't know what state you are in - but in Vic you are within your legal rights anyway from what I can see (not a lawyer though so may be wrong!).

http://www.humanrightscommission.vic.gov.a...0discrimination


#20 Chelli

Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:19 PM

Hi,
Once again I am asking that you do not start a debate about family day care or whether they have a right to exclude children who are not vaccinated. The family day carer who has responded in this thread was simply answering the OP's question about ramifications people have faced. This thread is not the place to debate that or attack member's choices.
I have removed posts that were off topic.

Thankyou
Chelli


#21 *cough*

Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:26 PM

Can someone please explain the pros/cons of delayed vaccinating or not vaccinating.

I'm asking as a genuine question - not to start a debate.

Please be factual in your comments rather than attacking one side or the other as I'd like to read some answers before the thread gets closed.

Many thanks.



#22 JAPNII

Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:30 PM

I;m curious to know if I'm reading the anti discrimination laws correctly so might post in the general section...

#23 Chardonnay Buffay

Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:31 PM

The forms I signed at my FDC said my kids had to be vaccinated. DS has anaphylaxis to peanuts, & she reluctantly accepted his epipen, thankfully didn't boot us out.

#24 Chelli

Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:34 PM

Posts I have removed were attacking that member and I would like this thread to stay on the track of non vaccinating ramifications. Obviously one of those is possibly not being able to use child care you would like. Whether it's against policy or not is irrelevant as family day carers are not mandated to take every family who applies, they can say no to whoever they like as they are caring for children in their own home. The member has not stated it's the scheme policy, rather her personal choice not to care for children who are not vaccinated. That is her right to choose.

Now please leave opinions about that out of this thread, it's not relevant to the OP. If you have any further questions, please PM me.

#25 peppersmum

Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:36 PM

QUOTE (CatsRuleDogsSmell @ 10/01/2012, 10:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Chelli, you are being quite OTT with deleting posts.  Since when have any threads stayed on topic?

It's relevant to ask if FDC are legally allowed to refuse kids based on their vax status.


Chelli is just used to threads getting out of hand very quick in this section re: vax. Probably just trying to keep it completely on topic, maybe a WDYT can be posted and the subject can be continued there?






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