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Save the money on private school & buy my kids a house instead?


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#51 ~Sorceress~

Posted 16 March 2012 - 11:33 AM

We scrape to send our children to a private school because I love the more nurturing and stable environment it provides. original.gif

Having also experienced the public schools in two states, I do believe the school our children are attending is a safer environment. shrug.gif We certainly experienced a lot more physical violence in the public system than I've ever seen in the private school sad.gif .



#52 SarDonik

Posted 16 March 2012 - 11:38 AM

QUOTE (~Sorceress~ @ 16/03/2012, 12:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We certainly experienced a lot more physical violence in the public system than I've ever seen in the private school sad.gif .


Ditto. Big brawls would break out and the teachers would lock themselves in the classrooms. No suspensions, exclusions, nothing..

#53 red_squirrel

Posted 16 March 2012 - 11:47 AM

For some parents it is just so they can say their child goes to X school.

They simply couldn't bare to say they go to the public. Oh the shame.

#54 Gangnam Style

Posted 16 March 2012 - 11:49 AM

QUOTE (Kylie Orr @ 16/03/2012, 11:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Perhaps it is an easy decision for you, and for that, I say well done.No need to come in and tell us that we're all morons for still discussing it.


I didn't actually say you were all morons.  laugh.gif


#55 BetteBoop

Posted 16 March 2012 - 11:54 AM

QUOTE (SarDonik @ 16/03/2012, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Actually if you look at the WA schools rating, out of the top 30 schools in the state for academic results, only 2 are public - 6% - stats that justify my statement 'good public schools are uncommon'. So there BabyJaguar Tounge1.gif


If your measure of a 'good' school is limited purely to academic results without considering the context in which many of the top schools operate, then private schools appears miles ahead.

But is academic achievement of the students a fair representation of how much the school contributes to student results?  

The top schools are often selective and many don't accept students with below average grades. From the outset, the top schools have a huge advantage in grade averages.

And, kids at the top private schools generally have parents who are from higher socio-economic groups who place great value on education. Both of these factors are linked very strongly to educational outcomes.

Private schools attract more of the top students so academic results may only reflect this fact. Do they help their students to improve their results is the question.

Surely a good school is one that produces the greatest change in its student, whether they're the lowest achieving kids or not. On that basis, some of the schools in rural and remote areas with high numbers of Indigenous students might be considered 'top schools'.


#56 Kylie Orr

Posted 16 March 2012 - 12:04 PM

QUOTE
I think that's a major assumption on your part. In my personal experience, most parents are just as driven outside school - ferrying kids to extra-curriculars, making sure every available opportunity is taken advantage of etc. It is not the role of the school (public or private) to provide all of these 'success drivers' and neither should it be. Whether a parent has chosen private or public school, most value their children's education and invest equally in personal time spent nurturing any specific talent. You should not be implying that private school is the easy road to success (for either the children or for their parents peace-of-mind), because it is not. Public or private, success is hard work and there is no easy short-cut.


I agree with you about the role of the school, Poet, and that most parents are hoping to provide the best opportunities they can. The difference being, many families who have sacrificed and committed to a private school education for their children are working very long hours to achieve this which often leaves the extra curricula activities within the confines of the school or not at all.  

I also know quite a few families who are spending a lot of money on their child's private school education and as a result have an expectation they will succeed at any cost, and often say to them "I am paying a lot of money for you to be here..." seeing success in a purely academic sense, and something you can buy into. I don't define success as a great career only, I see it as a great existence - as a person, as a contributor to society, as a parent etc etc. I'm not saying people who send their kids privately don't have the same ideals, but they may see that a high profile corporate career is of more importance than a well rounded trade, for (a very generalised) example.

QUOTE
Surely a good school is one that produces the greatest change in its student, whether they're the lowest achieving kids or not.
Amen.



#57 SarDonik

Posted 16 March 2012 - 12:05 PM

Public schools are hamstrung. They are under governmental pressure to not exclude delinquent students. Private schools don't have this problem. And in my experience, it was the bad kids that really adversely affected the school, not the teachers, the school itself, the curriculum etc At the public schools I went to as a student and taught as a teacher, the behaviour of the kids was often terrible, further enabled by the fact they knew there were very few consequences for them. At most private schools, kids know they mess around they're out, period. So until public schools are allowed to have more control over how they discipline their kids, they are always going to struggle against private schools.

#58 maxmum

Posted 16 March 2012 - 12:08 PM

Hi,

This is a really interesting read.  There are so many components to the 'happy, healthy, successful' etc etc children.  DH and I are both publicly educated, while my family was broken and dysfunctional his is like the brady bunch, though we are academically on par, we both did pretty well, I think he did because he had a great support and I did because I had no support, but I was pretty desperate not to 'turn out' like my parents...

disclaimer here: parents and myself had mended our relationship over the last 15 years and they are a positive and invaluable part of my family life now.

We will most probably opt for a private school for our children, mainly because the public school in out catchment area does not appeal to me and does not have a great reputation, I think our decision will be based on what school best suits the needs and wants of our children.

I am not totally sure about the other options discussed, like the house buying? It seems to me that I would rather help my children develop the skills and education to enable them to have a career where they can afford to buy a home and feel that achievement, rather than just give one to them..?  





#59 noisyhouse

Posted 16 March 2012 - 12:49 PM

QUOTE (~Sorceress~ @ 16/03/2012, 11:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We scrape to send our children to a private school because I love the more nurturing and stable environment it provides. original.gif

Having also experienced the public schools in two states, I do believe the school our children are attending is a safer environment. shrug.gif We certainly experienced a lot more physical violence in the public system than I've ever seen in the private school sad.gif .


Having watched my nephews go to what I think is the most expensive private school in Australia and suffer bullying, heads down the toilets, punching etc (yes plenty of physical violence) I have no desire to have that for my kids! I don't know of any violence at my son's public high school. It is a really supportive school environment.

Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions..............Please stop telling me all private schools are blah and all public schools are the other. It just isn't true!



#60 Kylie Orr

Posted 16 March 2012 - 01:06 PM

QUOTE
It seems to me that I would rather help my children develop the skills and education to enable them to have a career where they can afford to buy a home and feel that achievement, rather than just give one to them..?

That comment implies this can only be achieved through a private school education. Are you assuming that the 6 years of high school for public students precludes them from developing the same "skills and education to enable them to have a career where they can afford to buy a home and feel that achievement"?



#61 balletmom4

Posted 16 March 2012 - 01:22 PM

QUOTE (BabyJaguar @ 15/03/2012, 08:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ignore Sardonik.

Troll.



Oh, I thought Priv. was back. biggrin.gif

#62 maxmum

Posted 16 March 2012 - 01:50 PM

QUOTE
That comment implies this can only be achieved through a private school education. Are you assuming that the 6 years of high school for public students precludes them from developing the same "skills and education to enable them to have a career where they can afford to buy a home and feel that achievement"?


No no not at all, I am a product of public schools as is hubby and am not specifically for or against either, I think it depends on your personal situation.  I am simply saying that regardless of how your child is educated I think it is far more important for them to have the skills to develop a career in whatever they choose so they have the opportunity to buy a home for themselves.    Plus I think learning the value of earning money is an important life lesson, so for me, while it would be lovely to be able to afford to buy my kids houses, I think it would be lovelier to see them achieve home ownership, the old fashioned way.. ie saving, budgeting etc etc..

#63 SarDonik

Posted 16 March 2012 - 01:56 PM

QUOTE (balletmom4 @ 16/03/2012, 02:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh, I thought Priv. was back. biggrin.gif


xmas_tongue.gif  eexcite.gif

#64 1/2aDozen

Posted 16 March 2012 - 02:09 PM

QUOTE
If I could choose again I would choose to prepare myself to help your mum be the self esteem back up for our kids. That would mean being there physically, mentally and emotionally.


This really jumped out at me from the OP's post.  That is one powerful statement worth consideration.

#65 I'm Batman

Posted 16 March 2012 - 02:28 PM

Sardonik, not a troll, just a good old fashioned sh*t stirrer.


Good for you.

If you look at the aptar results in my state selective public schools lead the pack.

#66 purplekitty

Posted 16 March 2012 - 02:51 PM

QUOTE (=R2= @ 15/03/2012, 07:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
. She was looking forward to doing the robotics program this year (which starts in Grade 4) but looks like she might have to wait until Term 3. We will probably move her before high school if she gets offered a scholarship in high school but we're happy to pay full fees if we have to move her in Grade 5/6.
My son's team (one boy,two girls) that entered the Robocup competition in Year.7 won the state level. That was our local state primary school.

I don't regret the money spent on my children's private secondary education. There are a lot of assumptions made about both private and public education.

Selective schools are in no way an example of state schools. They are more elitist and selective than most private schools.


#67 secantrell4

Posted 16 March 2012 - 05:46 PM

There are additional influences from their friendship circle, the wider community, sports teams and other groupings, as well as society in general.

#68 katniss

Posted 16 March 2012 - 07:31 PM


QUOTE (jo074 @ 15/03/2012, 08:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The thing that most sways me to private high school for our kids is my experience at a private school where a large proportion of the kids were nerds (presumably because nerds breed nerds, and to afford the school fees a lot of the parents were accountants, engineers and other such boffins :-))  And since I was a nerd, instead of being a fish out of water at the local high school where it seemed there were only a few 'of my kind', I had a big group of friends so I could comfortably by my own nerdy self without being villified for it. And I'm still close friends to this day with more than half of our group. We were the dorks, the dags, the nerds, but had no problems at all and I'll bet our self esteems are a lot higher than if we had been in the minority groups at the local high school.   I'm sure the education was pretty good too, but to this day I still think that the biggest influence in my life was a good group of friends at high school.


I hung out with nerdy kids at my public school (& in a lower socio economic area aswell *shock horror*) & none of experienced any bullying because of this. Of course many kids do, but if you think bullying doesn't exist at private schools, you are living in a bubble. There have been many reports of bullying, drug use & sex scandals at some of the top private high schools in Perth over the last few years.

I do agree that peers are a very important influence but you get just as many good friends & valued friendships at public school. I intend to be a very involved parent in my children's schooling & life which I wouldn't be as to do if I sent them to private school.


QUOTE (~Sorceress~ @ 16/03/2012, 09:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Having also experienced the public schools in two states, I do believe the school our children are attending is a safer environment. shrug.gif We certainly experienced a lot more physical violence in the public system than I've ever seen in the private school sad.gif .


Well I think it's amazing that you've experienced ALL the public schools in 2 states to be able to make such a statement.


#69 Kylie Orr

Posted 17 March 2012 - 10:12 AM

QUOTE
Plus I think learning the value of earning money is an important life lesson, so for me, while it would be lovely to be able to afford to buy my kids houses, I think it would be lovelier to see them achieve home ownership, the old fashioned way.. ie saving, budgeting etc etc..

I agree wholeheartedly. My point was more "could the money be better spent elsewhere" given that those 6 very important years of high school are influenced by so many factors, not purely an academic education.

I don't think handing our children anything on a platter does them a service but I think a child who has a strong work ethic instilled in them from a young age (private vs public is not relevant here - that value comes from the home IMO) will have that forever, despite being given a leg-up (with a car or a house deposit or whatever).

Learning the value of money - that would be a challenge when there is an abundance of it, I would imagine. But again that comes down to parenting values. We lived overseas (in a third world country) when I was a teenager and I was quite disgusted by how many of the wealthy families treated their "staff" - so despite socialising in those circles because that's who I went to school with, I never adopted their same derogatory attitudes.
QUOTE
Public schools are hamstrung. They are under governmental pressure to not exclude delinquent students.

I agree here too - somebody has to take the "delinquents" as you call them but ideologically I am happy for my kids to learn to function alongside all types of people. Difficult people are everywhere, and I'd rather my kids learn the skills to cope, function, or shock horror embrace those that fall outside the standard expectations. That being said, if my child's education and enjoyment of school was negatively impacted for a prolonged period I may not be so stoic.

#70 petermarr

Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:56 PM

I just from the school but equally importantly, the home environment. There are additional influences from their friendship circle, the wider community,.

#71 Kant Anchor Us

Posted 20 March 2012 - 06:57 PM

QUOTE (libbylu @ 15/03/2012, 06:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What about local high school for years 7-9 and private school for years 10-12, or even 9-12?  This is what we are considering.  That way you won't have too many school fees to pay at the same time.  They will get the benefits of getting to know some shakers and movers, careful attention for their year 12, and you can escape the full cost.


Am I the only one who finds the above post a bit offensive?
My brother and I went to a low socioeconomic area public school, one of the worst in our state in fact, but he managed to finish a PHD from OXFORD in half the time it normally takes and now flies all over the world as an academic.... but I guess he's not a 'mover and shaker' because he didnt go to private school  rolleyes.gif

In all seriousness though, I think kids from public schools can do very well but they have to work harder and put up with more bs from other students, incompetent teachers, no facilities, etc. But as my brother's example shows it totally depends on the kid.

#72 Kylie Orr

Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:02 PM

I agree with you Soccer Mum. I replied to that comment in post #22 - I'd taken issue with the "movers and shakers" component, specifically.

Interestingly, when I worked in recruitment, the high school someone went to was IRRELEVANT to me. I wanted to know what their career history was, what their references said about them, how they would fit in with a team environment, and whether they had a solid work ethic. If you get great grades, and therefore open lots of doors but prove to be a slack a*se and a pain in the rear to work with, nobody will hire you. Well, not in my experience. Whether you move in the right circles or not, if you can't hold your own, you will not get far. wink.gif

#73 Dionysus

Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:12 PM

Soccer Mum, you cannot seriously take offense at someone saying only private schools have movers and shakers and then turn around and say that at public school one has to put up with incompetent teachers!

Honestly, it's laughable

#74 red2012

Posted 26 March 2012 - 09:00 AM

I think it's so highly dependent on your child and the catchment area you live in. We are not at that point yet but like most parents have already discussed it. We will be doing a combination of both. We live in a great area so will go public for primary but it will definitely be private for high school. But saying that, even on one income we have the luxury of being able to afford it, I don't think you should kill yourselves for it.  

The 'movers and shakers' comment is ridiculous for us it's more about the fact we have the option and the enviroment our kids are going to be in.  

DF parents did the whole three jobs thing so he could go private and I went public, we both did very well and went to university. In DF's case he would have done well either way I think. Saying that I do think you have to work harder in the public system and be more dedicated as a student, though I had some wonderful teachers over the years, you really have to want it when you're in the public system. There are some great public schools out there but also some not so great ones.






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