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Bullying...what is your definition?


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#1 mummabear

Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:40 PM

In regards to primary aged children, what in your mind constitutes bullying?  Where's the line between a bit of nastiness...and bullying?

#2 LynnyP

Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:45 PM

Sustained and repeated physical or verbal threats or intimidation by the same person to the same target over a period of time.

#3 JRA

Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:48 PM

That is the million $ question in our house.

I tend to agree with Lynny, but am unsure on where the verbal line is drawn. It is continual threats, or is it continual "teasing" - you are an idiot, you can't read properly, you can't play football, hockey is for wooses etc.

Also, if the child doing the continual physical intimidation has special needs, does it alter the answer.

Yes, a very key topic in our house at the moment.

#4 Guest_Telmatiaeos_*

Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:49 PM

QUOTE
I tend to agree with Lynny, but am unsure on where the verbal line is drawn. It is continual threats, or is it continual "teasing" - you are an idiot, you can't read properly, you can't play football, hockey is for wooses etc.


If it were a continual thing, then I'd classify that as bullying.

#5 BadCat

Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:17 PM

Pretty much boils down to continued harrassment with intent to upset.

#6 Expelliarmus

Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:19 PM

QUOTE (JustLynn @ 23/04/2012, 08:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sustained and repeated physical or verbal threats or intimidation by the same person to the same target over a period of time.

This plus - where an imbalance of power exists.

#7 JRA

Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:20 PM

QUOTE
Pretty much boils down to continued harrassment with intent to upset.


So if the intent is to "have fun" and not upset it is not bullying? O

#8 Soontobegran

Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:24 PM

QUOTE (JRA @ 23/04/2012, 08:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So if the intent is to "have fun" and not upset it is not bullying? O


I think intent to continually have fun at someone else's expense is bullying.


#9 Expelliarmus

Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:24 PM

I would say it's more:

Continued harrassment with intent to intimidate/exert power over.

ETA: For it to be bullying it has a number of elements. The use of force or coercion, is habitual and involves an imbalance of power. It can include verbal harassment, physical assault or coercion. The "imbalance of power" may be social power and/or physical power.

Edited by howdo, 23 April 2012 - 08:27 PM.


#10 JRA

Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:25 PM

howdo: great definition - of course

#11 BadCat

Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:31 PM

QUOTE (JRA @ 23/04/2012, 08:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So if the intent is to "have fun" and not upset it is not bullying? O


Oh FFS.  Yes.  That's exactly what I meant.    rolleyes.gif

The bully knows perfectly well after the first instance whether the victim thought it was mean or not.  If he or she continues then the intent is to upset for their own nasty little pleasure.

My DD's bully knew that his behaviour was upsetting to a great many people but he got his own jollies from it.  His intent was to have fun by upsetting people.  Some people are just sick little ****s that way.

#12 Expelliarmus

Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:43 PM

QUOTE (Sassy Girl @ 23/04/2012, 09:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I almost agree with this except for the fact that bullying can be a once off event.

No it's not. If it's a once off it isn't bullying. A once off is harassment. To be bullying it needs to be ongoing and sustained.

#13 JRA

Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:45 PM

QUOTE
ETA: For it to be bullying it has a number of elements. The use of force or coercion, is habitual and involves an imbalance of power. It can include verbal harassment, physical assault or coercion. The "imbalance of power" may be social power and/or physical power.


Now that has been added. So if there are two kids in the same grade at school, where is the imbalance of power? (assuming not major physical differences)

#14 Not Escapin Xmas

Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:47 PM

Imbalance of power comes down to social standing in the class/year/school I think. There's definitely a pecking order if I remember correctly!

#15 Expelliarmus

Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:49 PM

QUOTE (JRA @ 23/04/2012, 09:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Now that has been added. So if there are two kids in the same grade at school, where is the imbalance of power? (assuming not major physical differences)

Social power. It is very easy to quickly find out who holds the social power in a classroom. The 'popular child' has more social power than others. They more easily draw others in to back them up, they already 'naturally' have the other students onside.

#16 JRA

Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:49 PM

Thanks, that is what I thought, but just feeling a bit at sea on this at the moment.

#17 HubbaBubbaMumma

Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:51 PM

QUOTE (JustLynn @ 23/04/2012, 07:45 PM)
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Sustained and repeated physical or verbal threats or intimidation by the same person to the same target over a period of time.

This ^^^ Ive recently had occasion to discuss what bullying is and this is pretty much what was discussed.
QUOTE (Sassy Girl @ 23/04/2012, 08:36 PM)
14514931[/url]']
I almost agree with this except for the fact that bullying can be a once off event.


Sorry, but no it's not. I think that  we are very quick to say "bullying" when a kid maybe has something horrible said to them (as a one off thing) and not accepting that sometimes kids say unpleasant things to each other at times.
Disclaimer - I am talking about a kid saying something like "you're an idiot" to another as a one off, not systemic, ongoing behavior.

#18 LynnyP

Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:53 PM

It appears, from what I hear from school parents, that one child saying they don't want to play today is bullying or a teacher requiring a child to listen to them is bullying.  I despair.

#19 Expelliarmus

Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:54 PM

QUOTE (JRA @ 23/04/2012, 09:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks, that is what I thought, but just feeling a bit at sea on this at the moment.

If you need more specific help, feel free to PM. Another head/set of thinking might help?

#20 mumto3princesses

Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:57 PM

I agree.

Our primary school now has a very strict bullying policy which is good. I just wish it was in place when DD1 went through that school. They class bullying as a once off thing as well. They don't tolerate any form of bullying behaviour.

Not long ago a friend of DD2's had her and another friend in tears at lunch time. It wasn't just teasing though, it was more than that. Even though it wasn't continous they still classed it as bullying.

Looking at the education departments definition of bullying a lot of the behaviour thats been happening at high school could be classed as bullying too. Although personally at the moment I would class it as b!tchiness.

#21 HubbaBubbaMumma

Posted 23 April 2012 - 09:04 PM

QUOTE (JustLynn @ 23/04/2012, 08:53 PM)
14515007[/url]']
It appears, from what I hear from school parents, that one child saying they don't want to play today is bullying or a teacher requiring a child to listen to them is bullying.  I despair.


I'm with you on that too. My DD was bullied in year 7. It was systematic and ongoing for months on end. That is bullying.
My DS used some bad language at a child on a camp, once. That was defined as bullying - It took us weeks of dealing with it and arguing that he did not bully the other child. He used bad language ONCE at a child.
Sometimes I think parents need to toughen up a little when kids complain about being "bullied"

#22 kadoodle

Posted 23 April 2012 - 09:16 PM

I hope your DS is ok, JRA.  Social power used to bully is a big deal in primary school and because it's not a big kid pounding on a little kid with glasses, people refuse to see it as bullying.

#23 toosenuf

Posted 24 April 2012 - 09:57 AM

Howdo: awesome explanation, wish i had that a few years ago.

Who do you think should decide if the victim is being bullied? or should it be classifed as something else?  

My belief is that it should be the victim themselves or parent on behalf of the victim if they are too young to verbalise it all.  

This is a genuine question and is the only thing left unanswered from when DD2 (now in Y6) was bullied in Kindy and Y2.  This has always puzzled me.

#24 Expelliarmus

Posted 24 April 2012 - 08:37 PM

QUOTE (toosenuf @ 24/04/2012, 09:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Howdo: awesome explanation, wish i had that a few years ago.

Who do you think should decide if the victim is being bullied? or should it be classifed as something else?  

My belief is that it should be the victim themselves or parent on behalf of the victim if they are too young to verbalise it all.  

This is a genuine question and is the only thing left unanswered from when DD2 (now in Y6) was bullied in Kindy and Y2.  This has always puzzled me.

It's not a decision, per se, it's more that circumstances would make it clear whether or not it was bullying or harassment.

Parents are often very emotional about it and it's beneficial to have a consult with a school represnetative to unpack the situation.

#25 JRA

Posted 24 April 2012 - 09:48 PM

QUOTE
Who do you think should decide if the victim is being bullied? or should it be classifed as something else?

My belief is that it should be the victim themselves or parent on behalf of the victim if they are too young to verbalise it all.


I think it may not be the victim who can decide this. Given the concept of intent involved.

An example at the moment is that DS is being continually hit and kicked by one child. This is not bullying. He is getting similar but more of the verbal stuff from another child - including "hand over your money etc". I think this is bullying.

The first child was sent home from school today, but once again still not bullying. The intent comes in to it. A 9yo cannot necessarily know what intent is. Although in this case DS knows because he knows about the child.




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