[Majeix]

Just to note that there is more to comprehension than summarising a story.

While this is a useful tool for seeing if they are choosing novels/storybooks that are right for them, it does not comprehensively and adequately cover comprehension. After summarising or retelling main points of the text children need to discuss the text on a number of levels to show true comprehension.

One way of looking at it is this way:



Thus 'Here' questions are Literal questions. Straight out 'Did Johnny go to school?' type of question.

'Hidden' questions are Inferential. The child needs to infer, or figure out something in the text that is not literal. 'How do you think Johnny felt about going to school?' The child then answers by using surrounding information such as 'Johnny skipped along the path on the way to school' and correctly infers that Johnny feels happy about going to school.

'Head' questions are more stuff that you know about in order to bring your knowledge to the text to make meaning. For example if the text is about penguins the questions or discussion might talk about the properties of ice even though nothing about them is mentioned in the text. If penguins were sliding on the ice does the child know why they were sliding? (eg. ice is slippery and difficult to walk on, it's quicker to slide like when I am in my socks on the tiles in the kitchen so the penguins slide to go places faster)

When levelling a child the teacher has had them retell or summarise and then had a conversation with the child about all of those elements AND probably discussed some of the vocabulary with the child. If they cannot confidently do all that it doesn't matter how beautifully they can summarise a short novel - they will not be levelled up until they are competent in all areas of comprehension.

It's not to hold the child back, but to ensure that they are not missing anything and to avoid gaps in their knowledge.

Wider reading such as Zac Power is fabulous and has little bearing on reader levels because often these levels refer to a range of texts and children usually score higher and read more confidently on/with a narrative text than they do an information text or a report. The reading level is not to limit what your child reads but to ensure that instructional texts are at the correct level for the child to sequentially progress.

Howdo thank you for this post. It was a really clear look at what I should be looking at for comprehension with my daughter. In theory I know what I should be asking but it's great to have it as a kind of check list.

[AMPSyd]

My Yr 5 DS is getting help with a speechie with this...

'Hidden' questions are Inferential. The child needs to infer, or figure out something in the text that is not literal. 'How do you think Johnny felt about going to school?' The child then answers by using surrounding information such as 'Johnny skipped along the path on the way to school' and correctly infers that Johnny feels happy about going to school.

He went to a different school than DD and they did readers differently.

DD brought a different style of book home Monday (with no level on it) so maybe they give them all types. I have a parent teacher soon so will ask then. But my DD LOVES reading so we visit the library during the holidays and she is constantly reading.

But yes, comprehension is more important than reading a massive novel - DS did definately seem to fall through the cracks.

[Julie3Girls]

Another thank you to Howdo for that post.

Just to give it a bit of perspective, I was at an information night for the local high school last night. Part of it was class room tours, with the teachers there.
The hsie teacher was showing us how they work, particularly with the older kids, like yr 9 who have their own laptops. The kids are given ALL the slides for the terms/years work. No class time wasted on copying out chunks of textbooksetc. Class room time is spent discussing the issues.

And he had a slide up on the smart board, with the exact thing that HowDo was saying
Here, Hidden and Head questions, with examples of them. He said if you memorised every slide/textbook and was able to recite it back, you would NOT be able to get 100% on a test. At best, it would be around 75%. The kids need to learn how to think about what they are reading, how to interpret it, and apply the knowledge to other circumstances.

I can only imagine that being taught how to really THINK about what you are reading, right from the very start as they are actually learning to read, has got to be such a huge advantage.

[cheekymonkey]

When levelling a child the teacher has had them retell or summarise and then had a conversation with the child about all of those elements AND probably discussed some of the vocabulary with the child. If they cannot confidently do all that it doesn't matter how beautifully they can summarise a short novel - they will not be levelled up until they are competent in all areas of comprehension.

Thank you Howdo for more of an insight into how the teachers benchmark the children in the class. I've never gone into that much detail when checking DS#2's comprehension but know that he can do those things as it was actually his teacher who suggested he not bother with 'readers' anymore. I was more seeking assurance that he was actually reading and not just flicking the pages as I was surprised a child of not-quite-7, in only his second year of school, could read Charlie and the Chocolate Factory that quickly. Next time, if I know the novel well myself, I may ask some deeper questions of him.

I still believe capping levels is the wrong approach. Even if the probe program that Sal78 mentioned did drop my DS back 8 levels, he'd still be above the level 20 the OP stated was as high as year ones could go. And, even though he's one of those kids that just does the work asked of them, he would be bored senseless and it would end up diminishing his enjoyment of reading/literacy work.

[Akatara]

My dd stopped readers in term one of grade one. She was allowed to read whatever she liked at home. I did have to get her lots of books from the library, and she got a novel from the school library each week.

So if they love reading, why restrict them to leveled readers. Our school seems to encourage them to read whatever they like.

They still did literacy activities in class that were leveled, and comprehension exercises. By grade two her reading level was not formally tested. I mentioned she had not been tested all year in parent teacher, and he said she had passed all the levels.

[howdo]

I'm not a proponent of 'capping' readers either and not a huge fan of the readers at home as I have had 6 year olds reading Harry Potter myself. I don't restrict reading at all. (most readers are very boring IMO) I do frequently find though that children and parents think once a child can read the words they should be moving up a level and get upset when they don't.

The issue as I see it, is that non fiction reading is usually lower than narrative reading even if kids can competently read Roald Dahl at 7yo. And generally during a Guided Reading session children will be instructed - often with a non fiction text - at a level they can read narrative well beyond, to give them practice at developing and perfecting the comprehension skills. The purpose is not to make them read 'below them' but to make sure they are ticking all those comprehension boxes.

Many teachers will dispense with home levelled readers once children are about level 26 - but they will still have a level (for in-class work, reporting purposes etc) of some sort. At this point home reading is for pleasure, not as much emphasis on instruction/practice which is why children frequently move onto short chapter books and appear to be 'off levels'.

I have been surprised at how frequently a child can read a text word for word and summarise it but cannot do the deeper comprehension of inference and vocab. A lot of kids miss the nuances of texts because they can figure out what the sentence/paragraph means around some of the vocabulary. Not addressing that because they can summarise is short sighted.

[baddmammajamma]

Howdo, I am so glad that you've posted in this thread. It's always great to get your perspectives as a teacher.

FWIW, my daughter & her little cohort (Year One) are using Roald Dahl's works as their "in class" readers. I checked out the questions this morning, and they are very much in line with what you've outlined above.

[mamaknits]

To those who say that capping the readers is fine as the children's reading is not limited to just readers, I disagree. Yes, my son reads many books aside from the readers. his reading is not limited to them nor by them. however, if the school is going to send home readers expecting them to be read and questions answered, then send something home at approximately the right level. Capping the levels would mean sending some children home with readers so far below their level, that it's laughable. My son, for one, would grumble about having to read "silly baby books" as they are "boring". In this instance, I do agree with him - they ARE very boring!

Howdo, thank you for posting that about comprehension. I always ask the "here" questions and usually the "hidden" questions but rarely the "head" questions. With the lower level readers, there aren't many hidden questions that can be asked. At what level do the exercises become written rather than verbal?


This post has been edited by mamaknits: 08/03/2012, 09:12 AM

[howdo]

It is not usually until about level 12-15 that the 'Head' questions are asked. Hidden are usually there in texts below this level but they aren't as easy to formulate for most people.

There isn't a point at which they become written rather than verbal. A Running Record (the process of finding a child's level) is always a conversation. However children are expected to write things such as reading journals in the Primary and Middle Years and the responses would be a range of all types of questions. eg. your favourite part, write an alternate ending, how does a character feel etc etc

[mummame]

Are all kids this advanced, or is my kids seriously behind? I think my son has just moved to level two, this is in QLD so I am not sure what level this is elsewhere. These are very simple readers, one, two sentences a page. It seems like he is way behind, if kids his age are reading Harry Potter.