[Emma600]

Dear Lovely Mummies and Daddies,
We need help .... bedtime has become a disaster in our house. Our DD (3.5) has always been a good sleeper, even as a bub she went to sleep with a mimimum of fuss and slept all night most nights. But at around the age of 3 she started fighting us around bedtime. She no longer sleeps in the day (not since 2.5) and we've had the same routine since she was really small - dinner at 5.30pm, bath, into PJs, brush teeth, drink water, story, cuddles and tuck into bed.
Now ....
She doesn't want dinner
She won't have a bath
She fights us to brush her teeth
She tries everything to keep us in the room when we tuck her in .... asking for certain teddy bears, more stories, certain toys, draw her pictures, more food, drinks etc etc etc ...
If we give in and give her the things she asks for it just leds to more requests, if we say no she has a tantrum that winds up to such an extent that she can't seem to calm herself.
We are also trying to put her baby brother (1) to bed at the same time so we have to keep the screaming and yelling down otherwise it's impossible to get him to sleep.
Once she goes to sleep she usually sleeps all night without a problem .... but the 2 to 3 hours of screaming yelling crying and negociation that is so stressful and exhausting .
Anybody got any ideas ...... anything at all .... no idea too silly

[imamumto3]

what time does she go down at night?

[Natttmumm]

We get this at times too. So here's what we do assuming she is tired. If she's not tired it won't work.
We give her 10minutes warning of bedtime and say what toys, drinks, last snack does she need. We remind her once in bed we not giving her anything and she needs to be in her room quietly. We keep reminding his over the 10 minutes. If she asks for things once in bed we say no or ignore the calling out. She does tantrum and it goes on for a while but we just keep saying to her that when she calms down we can give a cuddle and bed. It sucks as DD1 is trying to sleep too but what else can you do.
We have some progress with most of the time DD2 does cry now. Probably once a week it's a full blown tantrum but we don't cave in because if we do she starts the next day again asking for food, drinks, toilet, toys, any excuse.
With the tantrums for bath and bed etc - I think that is just the age and I have no answers

[rob6712col]

Don't put her to bed at the same time as the 1 yr old. She needs to know she is the big sister and goes to bed after the the little one. Once you start to put the 1yr old down give your DD her 20 minute warning that bedtime is coming. Once you have your little one asleep, sit on the couch with your DD and read a story together or watch a short show together. Then start teeth brushing etc and to bed. She is vying for your attention as you are trying to do both together. She needs her own seperate bedtime and time with you to unwind.

We also changed bathtime to before dinner so that after dinner they can relax and play a little before having to brush teeth. We have baths starting at 5pm (3 to have baths), dinner at 6pm. My twins go to bed at 7-7.15pm and then DD1 goes at 7.30-7.45pm

This post has been edited by rob6712col: 26/11/2012, 07:28 PM

[Emma600]

Thanks for your suggestions so far.
Bedtime is about 6.30 .... do you think this is too early? Since she doesn't nap in the day she is pretty whingy and miserable by 6ish ..... but we could look at making it later I guess.
DS is not a good sleeper and it can sometime take an hour or more to settle him (but that's a whole other post) so it would be tricky to get him to sleep and still have time to spend with her .... but I guess there are 2 of us so we could work something out. Thanks guys I'll try this out.

[jen88]

What time does she wake up? Is it possible she is actually overtired? My DS (3.5) [who doesn't sleep during the day either] will often try and stretch out bedtime when he is really tired as I think he knows as soon as he gets into bed he will fall asleep!
Also the refusing dinner - maybe try it a bit earlier (if possible) My 2 would be well over eating by 5.30, they naturally want to eat at 3.30ish but I stretch it to 4-4.30 dinner then bath, books and/or card game and bed by 6. Sometimes they are asleep by 5.30, sometimes its 6.30. At the moment they wake at 5am, in winter its normally 6am.

[libbylu]

She might be a tad young, but we have found doing things by the clock helpful for DS, who is now 6. There is a big digital clock and he knows that at 6pm its dinner. 6.30pm bath, 6.50pm milk then teeth, 7pm into bed for reading and 7.30pm lights out. Lights out are at 7.30pm regardless so if he drags his feet with eating, bathing, dressing or bushing his teeth he gets less story time. I actually have an alarm set at 7pm and 7.30pm - the 7pm one lets him know that story time has started and if he hasn't done everything that needs doing before then, he's missing out on stories, and 7.30pm is the lights out alarm with which there is no argument. Obviously if we are out of kilter due to being out to dinner etc. we modify, but if its a normal night at home it goes far more easily if we can stick to the routine. He LOVES stories, so its his motivation to get everything else done without too much fuss.

This post has been edited by libbylu: 26/11/2012, 08:46 PM

[theb3an]

IMO, bedtime is bedtime and there are NO negotiations. the more you negotiate with her, the more you are allowing this behaviour to continue. she needs to know that mommy and daddy will not negotiate at bedtime. end of story.

i know it sounds harsh but rules are rules. i have never given in to dd's tactics and they are just that - delay tactics. if kids know that you'll give in to one, they'll keep trying to see if they can get them all.

so, i would stop with the giving in. stick to your routine and tell her what the routine is. as you're starting your routine, tell her: it's going to be bath, then books, then cuddles and then lights out and everyone goes to sleep. there will be no more additional books, or talks or anything. everyone goes to bed and then we'll have lots of cuddles in the morning.

if you want, use a sticker chart to incent her to "go to bed nicely". explain what that means to her. the next morning, if she went to bed nicely the night before, give her a sticker and let her put it up on the chart. kids love that. at the end of the week or 2wks, if she has all 7 or 14 stickers, get her a small prize.

if you find that she likes a sip of water before bed, incorporate that into your routine and keep a small cup of water in the room so you don't have to leave.

the more you give in and let her negotiate, the more she will do it.

[zzgirl]

6.30pm bedtime???? Does she wake at 5.30am? At that age my kids went to sleep at 8pm and were awake at 7am.

Sounds way too early for me - but maybe your family are early risers??

[zogee]

I think it's really common at that age. We went through about 12 months of bedtime battles but our situation was extreme!
What helped us was firm routine, time with mummy or daddy after her baby brother is in bed (eg she watches 20 min of a nature program with us) and a gro clock helped with convincing her to go back to bed after early waking/waking through the night when her brother needed resettling. We tried being very firm & even used a baby gate to stop her coming out 2570000 times but it just made her more stubborn (and made us increasingly frustrated!)
Good luck

This post has been edited by zogee: 24/12/2012, 02:03 PM