[ezza036]

[font="Century Gothic"]Hello All!

I have a few issues with my almost 8 mth old. She doesn't seem to fit into any of the nice neat categories of sleep problems they have in the books, and as my problem isn't night waking, but rather getting her to sleep in the first place, none of my friends have much advice, and all the books seem focused (and rightly so) on the poor women dealing with babies who wake up all night, rather than those that are just difficult (albeit epically so) to get down.

Our issues are:

1. She won’t go to sleep until quite late. Until 5 months she was in bed at 7 every night but then started fighting it. We now aim for 8 but it is usually after nine, and closer to ten, before she finally goes down. She will sometimes wake after one sleep cycle, bright eyed and bushy tailed, having treated it as a nap. She usually wakes between 6 and 9 am, often somewhere between 7 and 8… with one or no night feeds in between. It’s really quite inconsistent. She has never been a good day time napper, getting at most 1.5 hours all day, except for after swimming when I occasionally get a glorious 1.5 hours straight. We do the same routine every night with varying results. We've already flunked sleep school, & staying up that late isn't really an option as DH starts work ridonkulously early, and even when she is up until nearly midnight, she still wakes by 9am.

2. After sleep school at 3 mths, she could self settle of an evening, but from five months she has needed to be fed to sleep for all naps and evening sleeps, but on occasion after a night / early morning feed, I can put her into her cot, awake, and she will put herself to sleep…Not sure what to make of this but ideally I would like to start working towards her being able to fall asleep in her cot sans boob, arms and legs akimbo, or screaming. All the books I have read seem to say that if baby can self settle for one sleep, she can self settle for all, but that has not been the case here. Have you come across this before? Surely I've not got the first child in history who self settles only when it suits her?


3. We are currently trying to wean her off wrapping – we are down to one arm, but when I try and leave both arms out when I feed her to sleep, she bats her arms about like a deranged octopus, then gets herself so worked up that she pulls off and cries, and its at least half an hour before she is calm enough to try again.

I’ve been trying to create new sleep associations based on Pinky McKay's method by giving her a comfort blanket to snuggle while I feed her to sleep, and singing a particular song to her as I feed her to sleep, in the hope that eventually I can pull her off before she is asleep… but I have noticed that now when I start singing the song, she sometimes gets worked up and fights even more.. as if she knows I am trying to get her to go to sleep from hearing the song. And while my singing voice isn't great.. its certainly not scream worthy.

I tried a CIO type method one evening. Let us just say that the score at the end of that was CIO: Nil, Baby Girl: 1,000,000,000 points. I don't think she's ready for that yet.

I'm wondering if I should leave it be until the end of daylight savings (and let 9 magically become 8), if I should try and put her to bed earlier (does being overtired make a baby want to fight sleep?), wake her up at a consistent time each day (up at 7.30, down at 7.30?), fiddle around with nap times (eg if she isn't asleep by 4, just give up and let her be up for 6 hours straight), or just take up drinking?.

Anyone else nodding their heads thinking this sounds familiar? Please share your wisdom (or, if its really the only solution, your breastfeeding friendly cocktail recipes)

Cheers,

E

P.S Apologies for the novella I have written... Perhaps I should read her this each night, and the sheer boredom of it all will help her drift off!!!??

[PurpleNess]

Do you have a bed time routine - dinner, bath, bottle/boob/books, bag/swaddle,bed.
Also start trying to give her verbal cues, when you see her yawn, rub eyes, ears etc, explain that she's feeling tired & that it's nearly time for bed.
Whilst reading say things like, one more book then it's time to go into your cot & go nigh nigh etc

Be consistent.

It helped us a lot, we started this at 6 months. DS self settled really really well up until 1 month ago but he's just pushing my limits at 13 months so a whole new management strategy in place!

Also Im reading Dream Baby Guide by Sheyne Rowley, I'm not so interested in her strict routines although I'm sure they help many but she has some great info on communicating with baby & guiding them. Might aid you too.

[ezza036]

Hiya - Our night routine is dinner at 6, then a bath or a shower at approximately 7, water the strawberries with dad, read ' where is the green sheep' then "good night sleep tight', wrap as I say "it is time for little girls to go to bed" then attempt to feed to sleep... and then our waltz begins!!

I do admit though I struggle with consistency. I probably dont try things for long enough... but then she could win gold if screaming were an olympic sport.

[RachealJane]

I went the other way of having no routine at all. I'm a stay at home mum though so don't have to do anything in particular the next day.

I just would breastfeed as many times as it would take for her to fall asleep wherever I felt like it in the house. Then I'd put her in her cot to start the night, then once she woke again before midnight id feed her quietly in her room, and then if she woke again after that into our bed for the rest of the night.
No fighting bedtime, no tears, just play until she'd eventually fall asleep at the breast.

[PurpleNess]

Try giving her more of a heads up earlier, like OK darling mummy is going to give you a bath & then get ready for nigh nighs, keep lettting her know bed time is close by.

You can also stay in the room with her, sit in a chair and sing to her in the cot, may help her calm down. MY DS loves his bear, he stroked it to get to sleep - too cute.

[buffygirl]

I went the other way of having no routine at all. I'm a stay at home mum though so don't have to do anything in particular the next day.

I just would breastfeed as many times as it would take for her to fall asleep wherever I felt like it in the house. Then I'd put her in her cot to start the night, then once she woke again before midnight id feed her quietly in her room, and then if she woke again after that into our bed for the rest of the night.
No fighting bedtime, no tears, just play until she'd eventually fall asleep at the breast.

I'm doing something similar with DS, 11 months.

How did it work long term. Did she come up with her own routine in time?

[Natttmumm]

The only thing that stood out to me is the wake up morning time. I think you might be expecting too long of a night. If she's waking up at 8 or 9 am bedtime for the night would be 10 pm ish.
My kids were 7or 8pm but they are awake around 6am.
Most kids do around 10 to 10.5 hours overnight. If you want her down earlier in the evening then make sure she's up by 7am and then aim for a 830pm bedtime.
I seems the rest of the issues might iron out once that is fixed.
Good luck

[amabanana]

I had a similar baby and I'm sorry to say that her sleep issues were due to chemical imbalances in her body. I'm not saying this is what's up with your little cherub but I wanted to put it out there as a possiblity because I really think for some children the problem is physiological rather than anything you are doing 'wrong.' Some kids also just need less sleep.
In my experience, it's just so awful when you have tried everything in all the books, are screaming for help and people (including medical professionals!) tell you that you musn't have a good bedtime routine or you're not consistent enough. (Yes, a GP told me that a couple of months ago and DD is 5!) Of course I am projecting a bit here but I wish someone suggested it to me when DD was a baby instead of telling me to just let her CIO.
We tried everything and it was awfully frustrating and hard on the whole family. Finally, DD was diagnosed and we started medication that has enabled her to go to sleep consistently at a reasonable time for the first time in her life.

Best of luck, OP. I hope you get some joy very soon.

[ezza036]

Amabanana, I had a similar experience with her reflux (which is now under control). Can i ask what other indicators there were of it being more than just a sleep issue?

I'd been told to expect about 11 hours overnight, given her abhorrence of day sleeps.. Might give waking her at 7am a go and try and ensure I catch her tired signs early to try and avoid her being overtired at bedtime.

Has anyone else had the sometimes self settle thing? In that sometimes she will happily go down awake, but not the majority of the time? Why don't they come with manuals?!!

[amabanana]

Amabanana, I had a similar experience with her reflux (which is now under control). Can i ask what other indicators there were of it being more than just a sleep issue?

I'd been told to expect about 11 hours overnight, given her abhorrence of day sleeps.. Might give waking her at 7am a go and try and ensure I catch her tired signs early to try and avoid her being overtired at bedtime.

Has anyone else had the sometimes self settle thing? In that sometimes she will happily go down awake, but not the majority of the time? Why don't they come with manuals?!!

DD had reflux too. Poor little things.

I guess when DD was little the only indicator we had that something was NQR was that nothing was working to get her to sleep! She also hit all her milestones fairly early which many care givers said meant she was bright and curious and therefore didn't need as much sleep.
It wasn't until she was much older, saw a psych and was diagnosed that we realised what was going on. I had always been brushed off by professionals who said she was just bright/engergetic/stubborn/lacking in routine. I got sick of being told 'try a relaxing bath and some soft music.' Made me want to punch people in the face.
We've only recently got meds and although I wish we knew sooner I think probably your DD is too young (?) for a Dr to consider that. I think at that age they would be taking a wait and see approach which I think is sensible. Not that it helps you now!

I think what got me through was coffee and cake, friends who listened without judgement and also putting DD into someone elses care for a few hours a week so I could have some 'me' time.

It does end. Truly.

I too wish they came with manuals! Life would be so much easier.