[Kylie Orr]

I am a non-practising Catholic who married an atheist. I’m also a non-practising virgin. Perhaps that last point is superfluous.

My son attends the local government primary school where “CRE” (Christian Religious Education) is an optional part of the curriculum. With my husband an outspoken atheist, I was convinced he would not endorse our son attending CRE. When he said, “sure, why not?” I was stunned.

The minor detail we overlooked was the “Christian” part of CRE. You see, I thought it was just “Religious Education”. I support an education in religion – open the young boy’s eyes to the many different belief systems in the world; teach tolerance and understanding and perhaps he will find something that rings true for him. He is only six, so I was anchoring all this on the assumption that, in time, he will make his own decisions about his spiritual beliefs, armed with an accurate cross section of information.

The lack of attention to the most influential component of CRE, the “Christian” part, has put us in a spot of bother. It started when the child came home and proudly announced that God made everything. He showed his atheist father a workbook with the following activity.

Fill in the blanks:
G_D created the sun
G_D created the sky
G_D created the earth

Meh. I thought it was pretty harmless. Perhaps even mildly amusing. God is up there with Santa for me. It’s nice to believe if that’s what floats your boat. If your faith brings you joy, and helps you lead a better life, go for it. If you are Christian and find it offensive that I have put God on the same level as Santa, I apologise. If you are of the Santa faith and find it offensive that I have put him on the same level as God, I apologise. If you think Santa IS God, then come join my camp.

We could take the child out of CRE, but after three terms of attending, he would see that as punishment and there’s no point making a dinner party out of a simple supper.

I attended a Catholic primary school and my husband, who didn’t, knows more about the bible than me. I spent most of my church time counting hats and watching adults try to pick their nose behind handkerchiefs. Fortunately, our church had in-built entertainment in the form of an alter boy who was a sandwich short of a picnic. He liked to swing on the life-size cross behind the priest and call out people’s full names at the top of his voice in the middle of service. “HELLO KYLIE ORR!” coupled with an enthusiastic full-bodied wave. He made muffling laughter in church a true physical challenge. I paid miniscule attention to the mass, or the mass brainwashing that was apparently taking place. This is why I was unconcerned about the topic matter of my son’s CRE class.

My husband was not so nonchalant.

He flipped his lid and started ranting about brainwashing and how if this is the best Christianity can come up with to teach their religion, then it’s not saying much for the religion. Sharing basic values of the Christian philosophy was ok, but teaching six year olds creationism was where he drew the line. He challenged my six year old, asking for proof of God’s existence, even recommending some questions he could ask his CRE teacher next week.

“Not to mention, how uncreative a teaching exercise to have a “fill in the blank” task with the same word and same missing letter! Education is supposed to teach them to think and analyse not to repeat after me!”

He doesn’t yell much, my husband. But he yelled about this. For a long time. So, I let the man vent. I reminded him the kid’s six and probably will have no recollection of the class when he’s twenty and that perhaps we’ll not sign him up for CRE in Grade One. The mistake I made was asking the husband how religious brainwashing was any different than his obsession with his football team. I reminded him that he told our sons “you can barrack for anyone you like, but if it’s anyone other than Carlton, you can’t live here.”

Hilarious to me but not too intelligent given the man’s state of mind at the time.

We have reached a compromise. The child will finish the year attending CRE and he will learn guitar during the class next year. I have asked my husband to shut his piehole unless there is sweet apple pie coming out. It’s not fair to our six year old to pummel him about the existence of God when he is simply repeating what he learnt that day. And for a six year old, their teacher is the closest thing to God anyway.

I calmly explained to my son that some people believe in God and some people don’t. Daddy doesn’t (I wonder if he’d pick up on that prior to our little chat). My husband interjected with “I believe in cabbage”. Thanks. Thanks very much. I ignored the overgrown child and continued counselling the actual child with the need to respect other people’s beliefs and reiterated the most important thing is to be kind to others. Vague. Wanky. But age-appropriate.

This little drama in the Orr household has made me wonder why they actually teach religion in public schools? I would understand some class exercises about different beliefs, perhaps a simple introduction to religious philosophy geared to six year olds, but to specialise in only one religion at a non-religious school is a little odd. Before you start your own rant about how we should have read the permission form properly and then we could have avoided the drama, I want to point out I welcomed the confrontation. I like my children to be exposed to diverse experiences and this was my son’s first real super challenge with his father on the topic of religion. I’m looking forward to son Vs husband in next week’s instalment: “Politics and George W Bush - What the W really stands for.”

Do you think specific religion should be taught in non-denominational public schools?

Kylie


This post has been edited by mother-in-da-hood: 23/11/2009, 05:12 PM

[Guest_Nat2203_*]

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This post has been edited by Nat2203: 18/08/2010, 08:31 PM

[just-call-me-mar...]

there are children in the public schools where that religion lesson is the only exposure they get to God and religion. there are parents who want their children to learn religion but don't know how to teach it or how to explain it. It may only be a half hour lesson once a week but at least you have the option of doing it or not doing it.

I don't see the problem with it all since it's optional.

Corrie:)

[BeKitteny]

I would rather my daughter experienced either a comparative religion course or a secular ethics course. I am a little uncomfortable personally with "hard" religion (eg. "God made the world") being taught in schools (IMHO that is what Church is for) but I think the decision should be left up to parents in the end as it seems important to some.

My understanding is that currently in NSW that kids must either do religious scripture classes or else do nothing else educational during this time. This bothers me a little and I hope a comparative religion course or secular ethics course is available by the time DD gets to school or else I guess I will have to choose between risking a religious course or wasting her time.

I remember being told by a scripture teacher once that a woman's place in the church is cleaning the curtains.... I don't want DD to hear that....

This post has been edited by BeKitteny: 24/11/2009, 02:06 PM

[Lickety Split]

Kylie this made me laugh out loud. I too went to Catholic schools and my athiest husband knows far more about the bible than I do. I spent my time in mass trying to block out the elderly women singing off key and waiting for communion because I knew that was close to the end of things and we could go home.

And no, I don't believe specific religion should be taught in non-denominational public schools. Our children will not be attending such classes.

This post has been edited by libbyrose: 24/11/2009, 02:19 PM

[fancie]

I can appreciate the reasons (mainly historic) that religious studies are available in public schools but in this day and age I find these reasons completely unacceptable. My daughter does not attend any of the many available "scripture" classes at her school. I would love her to be able to attend an ethics based program instead of watching endless DVDs.

I find it very interesting that the objections to an ethics based program being available in public schools as an alternative to scripture come from the Christian Churches who continue to vehemently lobby against it.

In my opinion, religious education is an individual/family lifestyle choice and should only take place outside of school hours either in the home or at Sunday school or church.

[AlottaPink]

Okay. so I may be totally off track here (I know. It happens but only rarely ) but as far I can gather in Queensland if any religious denomination requests permission to teach at a public school they will be allowed.

So, the reason that Christianity is usually the religion that is taught is because this is who approaches the school. There are not many Buddhists lining up as far as I'm aware.

I'm guessing they would have to have someone who is knowledgeable within that faith too which is why they can't teach a mish mash of different religions.

FWIW, DH and I wanted DD1 to attend RE to form her own opinions as we have other beliefs. This way she can decide what's best for her when she's older.

We do, however, think it's ridiculous considering some of the stories coming home about the lady saying that a man and woman have to be married (pity the poor kid who now thinks his parents are sinners for either a) not being married or b) not being a man and woman). I do think if they are going to teach, they do need to keep in mind that times have changed and, although this may be the word of the bible, to express it to a six year old in such black and white terms is a little unhealthy.

I will be investigating further before letting DD1 return to RE next year.

[Maxinefox]

Another hilarious blog, love it.

If the RE in my childs school has a fair and balanced view then I'd have no problem with them learning about the values and ethics 5/6 year olds can understand... but if its going to be Creationist I wouldn't have a bar of it, and neither would my DP.

I remember back in Yr 3 we had RE once a week, for a while there was a Christian couple teaching but they left so we just hung out in the playground for 30 minutes and was way more fun

[Darkmoon]

Teaching religion can be a way of brain washing people. I have no objections to teaching things like creationism, 10 commandments in christianity, nor do I have any objections to many teachings in Muslim, Budism, Shinto, Hindu ect just to name a few other popular religions.

They all have similar if not the same core values, just worded differently. Some religions will run counter to our christian based society, like affairs are not wrong if people are respectful to each other. These kinds of concepts I would have objections to especially for primary school and under.

[Starbuck]

I am absolutely opposed to RE in State schools. Plus, in Australia it is not an opt in system, but an opt out system, meaning that many apathetic parents, or non-believers kids go to scripture. Then, most of the kids go and the few whose parents are really against it are stuck by themselves colouring in.

The religious groups fight so hard to keep secular ethics courses from being offered in lieu of RE, I believe because they realise many people would chose that over RE if they themselves are not religious.

The churches who provide the teachers are definately in it to convert kids, make no mistake. I grew up in a church going family and remember many times at church where we would pray for the scripture teachers to bring Jesus to all the children so he could "change their hearts".

The sooner a comparative course or ethics course such as St James Ethics center is offering is introduced the better. Or just scrap RE all together!!!

In my opinion, religious education is an individual/family lifestyle choice and should only take place outside of school hours either in the home or at Sunday school or church.

Exactly, if you want your kid to know about God, then take them to church!

there are children in the public schools where that religion lesson is the only exposure they get to God and religion. there are parents who want their children to learn religion but don't know how to teach it or how to explain it

This should not be down in school time, the curriculum is full enough all ready!!! Wanting your kids to know God, but not knowing enough to teach them yourselves or take them to church is a cop out IMO.