[Snafu]

Hell no!! In my area there is 161 different cultures, No idea how many religions but I recon just about all of them . If a child can get picked on for taking salami to school during Ramadan then what might happen if you have children (who have just learned about a religion they don't completely understand) talking to children from other religions about this new info they have? It could end up disasterous!! Lots of people are very convicted in their faith & to have someone (who only knows a few things & not enough to back themselves for a "battle") tell them what they think is wrong is rather insulting. Children should be taught to be open & respectful of all beliefs

Oh & when my sister did CRE she came home spouting "God does this, Jesus died for us, blah blah blah" then sat for dinner & began to pray, when she finnished I said "why did you do that?" she said "I dunno they said to". So she only learnt to repeat what they said, not why it was done so really she didn't learn jack sht.

Oh here's the link for the salami incident if you didn't hear about it.

http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/11/19/boy-bu...-even-a-muslim/

This post has been edited by Allie81: 25/11/2009, 08:30 PM

[tans999]

The problem with the "opt out" option is that basically children are forced to spend this excluded from structured learning.

Coped below is an extract from SchoolsNSW (emphasis added):

"Not compulsory Parents/caregivers are asked to advise the school of their child's religious denomination at enrolment. SRE is not compulsory and a child may be withdrawn from SRE classes at any time by notifying the principal. Students not attending SRE will be appropriately cared for at school. This may include private study, but not timetabled lessons or scheduled school activities."

So if you don't want your child to receive Christian preachings (as the OP pointed out, "G-D made the world" etc) as facts, you cannot ensure that your child receives any kind of timetabled lesson, eg comparative religious studies or ethics during that time. I strongly disagree with this.

This post has been edited by tans999: 25/11/2009, 08:28 PM

[Starbuck]

The curriculum is already jam packed with stuff they have to teach kids, surely it would be far better to remove RE, let parents instruct their children in religious/spiritual matters and use the time to do some of the other stuff they need to learn.

you can opt out anytime you want

Great, our kids get a whole hour of colouring in!

[Pompol]

I taught SRE in public high schools for many years and did some CRE in primary schools for a while just before I left the church. I've long since had a massive change of heart !!!

If they could see and hear what your children are taught in these classes, I suspect nearly all parents would bother to opt out, particularly of the high school materials. How many people would want their 13 year old being told that homosexuality is an evil choice, or your 15 year old being told that all sexual activity outside of marriage (including KISSING) is sinful ? Both of these were the topics of classes I taught. Or your third grader being told God hates divorce and never wants parents to separate? Or your kindegarten child being told that Santa isn't real? Or that taking medicine is wrong and you should just let God heal you? I've been in primary school classes where questions got those answers.

As to the question posed in the title of the blog - "why bother?". The answer is pretty simple. Conversion is the aim of the game, in fact one faction which organises a lot of RE in public schools across NSW (all of it in my town even now!) has a structured and stated plan - teach RE, build relationships with the students over time, and then invite them to events where they can be converted. Its generally not the gentle religious followers who volunteer to teach, its often the raving evangelical fundamentalists.

By the way, the "opt out" system is a joke, in most of my classes or assemblies, I'd have less than 1% of kids opt out. I think parents expect their children to be taught some gentle values ("love one another"?) but that's just not often the case.

Now an "opt in" system with some transparency and honestly about curriculum, and careful supervision by impartial school teachers of all actual classes, that I'd have no issues with.

I really don't mind to sound like a psycho. I'm pretty passionate about this, I hold a lot of regret for those young, innocent years before I learnt to think for myself

[smudgiekiss]

oh BellyKelly thank you for being honest and writing your post.

My DD starts Prep next year and I can assure you she will be part of the 1% spending one hour colouring in.

I just hope that other Mum''s and Dad's read your post and make the same choice to not brainwash your children. Let them grow and make their own choices.

[kaleidoscopicdre...]

Well said BellyKelly.

My most vivid memories of RE in primary school was being asked to put your hand up if you weren't baptised. I was one of 3 who raised their hand. We were then used as an 'example' of people who would go straight to hell. Fantastic for a 10 year old to hear & certainly promoted tolerance and acceptance of others.

If they could see and hear what your children are taught in these classes, I suspect nearly all parents would bother to opt out, particularly of the high school materials. How many people would want their 13 year old being told that homosexuality is an evil choice, or your 15 year old being told that all sexual activity outside of marriage (including KISSING) is sinful ? Both of these were the topics of classes I taught. Or your third grader being told God hates divorce and never wants parents to separate? Or your kindegarten child being told that Santa isn't real? Or that taking medicine is wrong and you should just let God heal you? I've been in primary school classes where questions got those answers.

A few years ago I was helping a family friend's high school son with some schoolwork. He had an assessment he needed assistance with & the topic was the moral & ethical issues relating to abortion. To encourage him to think critically & prepare for the assessment, I proposed a number of scenarios in which he was required to consider abortion from a number of perspectives. One of the scenarios which had been considered at school was rape. When we discussed the topic further he told me that the likelihood of a woman falling pregnant during rape was practically non existent, as a woman's fallopian tubes close over during rape. This is what he was taught during a religious education class. To say I was taken aback is the understatement of the century.

In my opinion, religious education is an individual/family lifestyle choice and should only take place outside of school hours either in the home or at Sunday school or church.

I agree completely. It seems in today's society, schools and teachers are expected to raise & parent our children. From sex education to road safety to religion. Where do we draw the line? I don't believe in denominational or even non-denominational religion being taught in Public Schools - that is the role of Catholic/Christian/Islamic/Anglican/Adventist etc schools. If, as a parent, you feel your chosen religion should play an integral role in your child's education, send them to a private school. I believe an intenstive integrated exploration of a variety of cultures, languages & religions would be a more beneficial and positive experience for children rather than typical RE. By this I don't mean the usual 'tokenistic' "Let's learn how to sing a Twinkle Twinkle in Japanese" or "Muliticultural food days" either. If we are to raise worldly, open minded, intelligent, compassionate & tolerant adults, surely this would be a better way to go about it?

[gottocatchawabbi...]

I'm really glad you're written this blog Kylie. My eldest is due to start school next year in a public school and at her orientation last week we were addressed by the religious education person who at no time mentioned that RE was optional. The lady was really quite passive aggressive in her approach toward the parent and RE.

I will be speaking to DDs teacher indicating my wishes for DD not to attend but I'd be interested to see how many parents are either too scared to say something or don't even know their children don't have to go after the spiel we got the other day.

If my children want to find out more about religion later down the track I won't stand in their way of doing so but at 5yo I think there's more important things to embrace.

With the amount of bullying that goes on in schools and just in society in general I feel the ethics education is far more warranted that RE. JMHO

[fancie]

Hurray, hurray, the NSW government announced today that and ethics program developed by the St. James Centre for Ethics will commence trialling next year in addition to the choice of scripture classes and non-scripture.

I must say that I have never felt threatened by Christianity, it is that I object to my daughter spending an hour of unproductive time because I do not wish her to attend any of the scripture classes, and prior to today's announcement, it was forbidden for her to undertake any learning if she was not attending scripture.

If parents want a religious education for their child that is their responsibility, not the public school's. If parent's cannot afford to send their child to a church school then other free methods are available e.g. actually attending church and Sunday school might be a good place to start.

[Darkmoon]

If it was just christians I have no problems with, born again christians(Evangelicals) I would be feeling a bit cautious as well.

For the atheist, since you have no religious belief, how about you have no Christmas, Easter, Valentines Day, St Hallows Day(Halloween), no Ramadan, no Hina no Hi(Dolls Day(For children to get well or remain healthy)), sorry I am starting to talk about days not applied to Australia. Just tell them the cold hard truth, we are born, work or be slaves and then we die, in essence our life means nothing.

By the time children are about 8-9yrs old, they will start asking questions where there is 2 conflicting pieces of evidence presented. eg. God created the world in 7days and there was Adam and Eve, what about the dinosaures? a science program said they were on earth before man existed. How can that be?

See, you now have a good question from an 8or 9year old who is curious about the world and trying to rationalise how things go together. This is the first inroads you can start to make about telling them about how things go hand in hand and why Religion is for ones spiritual needs.

This post has been edited by Darkmoon: 26/11/2009, 01:14 AM

[possumoz]

If you just want to complain about CRE and the "Christian" part does have meaning, then write to the Minister of Education about it. Australia is still a predominantly Christian country and if there are those who don't like CRE they can opt out and study in the library or whatever. I am a Christian and I enjoyed CRE when I was at school. CRE was aimed at very young children anyway and often based on bible stories and teachings. If people don't want CRE then ask the Minister for Education to remove it, that's simple.

My own view is that I will be sending my children to a school that is either a Catholic School or a Christian based school. My own view is also that if it comes to a time when the majority don't wish to have CRE in schools perhaps a new "Life" subject could be introduced based on the fourth r (not reading, writing or arithmentic, but basic respect and manners). Have you noticed the increase in people's disrespect for each other in general and the increase in bullying and violence in schools? Christianity teaches love one another but if you have teaching of children which leaves out at least some basic codes of life from the 10 commandments etc (and children are at school for a large part of the day), then a class in respect and basic manners and consideration for others (including respect for teachers) would not go astray.

As for introducing a multi-religious understanding class, this sounds like a subject for High School. You can also find basic books on different religions at the Library anyway if you are interested in them.

Where I live there are quite a few Christian Schools which are not too expensive, so for those parents who want their children to receive Christian education in school don't forget about the independent schools. Thankfully we live in a country where there are a lot of choices as to the different schools we can choose for our children.

Cheers and happy holidays to all.