[ampersand]

New thread for you!

Let me know how long you generally like them to run and I'll keep an eye on them.

Cheers,

Ampersand

[mum850]

Gold!!!
(having an immature moment sorry)

[Delayfish]

Hi ladies,
I posted in the last thread a couple of days ago and didn't receive any replies - I'm hoping it's because you all just missed my post not because I'm asking too much (or because my post was waaaaay too long)

Basically my DS (Prep, Vic) is way ahead of the curriculum, his teacher has advised me that academically he could easily go into grade 2 or even grade 3 next year but socially we (the teacher and DH and I) agree he is not mature enough. His only option is a Prep/1 composite next year. His teacher has recommended an Individual Learning Program for him as he his very concerned about DS getting bored at school, but has advised again skipping a grade for social reasons.

Am I doing the right thing? I am looking into having him (and DD, grade 4) tested (thanks BMJ and lotsa for all the advice re testing), but honestly I can't see what difference it will make right now. Even if his IQ were 200 he's still not mature enough to skip a grade, I think it would be detrimental to his social development. How do you balance the academic and the social needs of an advanced child?

Thanks in advance for any advice ladies

[mamaknits]

Delayfish, sorry. I read but I didn't get round to replying and also because I don't have first hand experience yet to be able to offer any advice from my own experience.

When we attended teh GERRIC conference for parents recently, one of the things I took away was that emotional maturity is often mistaken for immaturity, especially amongst boys. A highly gifted small child may, for example, appear to cry easily and so appear less matured than his age peers. However, if probed, you may find that he is crying because he feels something so deeply, and it is an emotion that is older than his years. An example provided was that in a typical class, when shown a disaster such as the bombing of the twin towers, the children may be fascinated by the explosion and the be in awe of the tumbling down of the towers. The gifted child may cry or be distressed because he is "thinking of the people trapped in there or dead". I have observed similar (not the same) in my own child in that he thinks more deeply about issues like death and suffering than what I have seen in most children his age. The upset behaviour or tears may lead one to think he is less emotionally matured.

So the question is, is your son truly socially/emotionally immatured or is he more matured and that maturity is mistaken for immaturity? When left on his own in a mixed group, who plays with him and who does he play with? Age peers or older children? That will give you an indication, I think, of how he will get on in a class of older kids.


Whether or not to have him skip.. that is a personal decision and not an easy one at all. I am not saying you should or should not have him skip a grade.. just suggesting that the "immaturity" may not be that at all.

[kyrrie]

Wasn't ignoring you delayfish, but I don't have experience with the composite class structure where that's the only option. In fact your situation would be a real concern for me. And DD is not even necessarily gifted (but is definitely advanced).

She is now in yr 2 and was in straight classes in both K and yr 1. Both teachers she had in those years strongly warned against her being in the top year group in a composite and one even suggested the lower year of a multi-ability composite would in fact be worse because of potential resentment from the older kids, at an age where differences really start to be noticed.

Is there any chance of keeping the same teacher next year? Get hold of the department's GATS policies so you understand all of the options schools should offer. I'm sure Victoria has lots of information. If not I can give you the links to NSW's, which are excellent. Then organise meetings now with everyone who makes the decisions in the school. DD had teachers walking into their offices saying you need to do something and then me backing that up and I'm so happy with the outcome this year. She has had a wonderful year.

I hope someone has some experience with their kids being in the upper year group in a composite and has some positive advice.

[melaine]

Just stalking the thread - my DS is bright, but not gifted as far as I can tell, but I'm a preservice teacher interested in G&T.

My mum had a similar issue when I was in Grade 1 (in a 1/2 composite) My teacher suggested grade skipping but my mum decided against it (based on age, physical size etc more than maturity). The situation was complicated by the fact that we moved states and I ended up in a 1/2 composite again. Unfortunately my teacher had no idea what to do with me and I spent most of the year in the library working on 'independent projects'. However, when I started I went through a phase where I decided to completely switch off - got all the basic spelling words wrong etc when in reality I could spell anything right after learning it (i.e. reading it). My teacher thought my mum was a crazy, pushy mother I think...


I definitely think an ILP would be necessary in a prep composite - I imagine he is bored this year in prep, let alone when they start reviewing letter sounds and basic number facts all over again. There is only so much you can differentiate the curriculum to cater for the extremes in the class.

I assume the school is quite small? Most of the schools near me have straight prep classes... In my experience (limited at prep), you can cater for gifted grade 2's in a grade 1/2 better than a grade 1 in a prep/1 class - because (some) preps need SO much support for the first two-three terms.

[taranicole]

Hi Delayfish, I was chatting with friend this morning about her 4 children who are all exceptionally gifted and she has EXACTLY the same problem with 3 of them....socially they are behind (her kids are a bit quirky, awkward but not to the point of it being concerning) and struggle with other aspects of schooling like sport and the recommendation was that they recieve appropriate extension in their appropriate age level. She said the advice of her school psych. (her kids are private) was that in order for acceleration to work they have to be the full package - e.g advanced in ALL areas not just academics. She says even at a private school with a slight gifted focus (or at least acknowledgement) she's not convinced enough is being done with extension but feels that as long as her kids are coping, happy and still enjoying learning then that's just as important rather than pushing and pushing just to see how far they can go....if you know what I mean...

....there's no 1/2 class???? My DS1 will be going into a 1/2 next year after a full year of prep (rec). A year of prep/1 definetly doesn't sound ideal...that means half of those kids will be totally new to the concept and just starting on the alphabet...but will a good teacher it could work??

[Delayfish]

Thank you all so much for your replies, I appreciate it so much

When we attended teh GERRIC conference for parents recently, one of the things I took away was that emotional maturity is often mistaken for immaturity, especially amongst boys. A highly gifted small child may, for example, appear to cry easily and so appear less matured than his age peers. However, if probed, you may find that he is crying because he feels something so deeply, and it is an emotion that is older than his years.

Mamaknits, I have never heard of this before, how intriguing! I have no idea at all if this would apply to my DS, maybe I need to talk to a psych about it? Or have DS talk to a psych. DS is highly emotional and cries very easily, which I must admit I assumed was emotional immaturity and therefore haven't put any further thought into it. Thanks for the information, I will definitely put some more thought into it.

Is there any chance of keeping the same teacher next year? Get hold of the department's GATS policies so you understand all of the options schools should offer. I'm sure Victoria has lots of information. If not I can give you the links to NSW's, which are excellent. Then organise meetings now with everyone who makes the decisions in the school. DD had teachers walking into their offices saying you need to do something and then me backing that up and I'm so happy with the outcome this year. She has had a wonderful year.

Kyrrie, unfortunately DS's teacher is moving to the senior school next year and will be teaching a 5/6 composite - I'm disappointed for DS, but elated that my DD might be in his class next year (grade 5). He really is a wonderful teacher. I will look up the Vic GATS policies, thank you for that idea. I think I really need to have both kids tested, as the school (especially the principal) seems reluctant to admit that they are advanced/G&T and the school seems unable to really cater for them. Maybe when I have test results (ie, something more concrete to work with) the school might be more supportive?

I definitely think an ILP would be necessary in a prep composite - I imagine he is bored this year in prep, let alone when they start reviewing letter sounds and basic number facts all over again. There is only so much you can differentiate the curriculum to cater for the extremes in the class.

I assume the school is quite small? Most of the schools near me have straight prep classes... In my experience (limited at prep), you can cater for gifted grade 2's in a grade 1/2 better than a grade 1 in a prep/1 class - because (some) preps need SO much support for the first two-three terms.

Undomesticmumma, thank you for your thoughts. I agree that an ILP will be the minimum I think DS will need in a Prep/1 composite. His teacher told me that there have been a number of times this year when DS has told the teacher he is bored, but the teacher has responded immediately with more challenging and engaging work (ie, no ILP needed so far apparently).But things will be different in a P/1 comp. His current teacher suggested that an ILP would not be considered until term 2 next year, but I think I will push for an ILP in term 1 - why waste a term waiting around??? Yes it is a small school, approximately 200 students.

....there's no 1/2 class???? My DS1 will be going into a 1/2 next year after a full year of prep (rec). A year of prep/1 definetly doesn't sound ideal...that means half of those kids will be totally new to the concept and just starting on the alphabet...but will a good teacher it could work??

taranicole there are 3 x Prep/1 composites next year, and 2 x 2/3 composites, unfortunately no 1/2 comp which would have been great for DS.

She says even at a private school with a slight gifted focus (or at least acknowledgement) she's not convinced enough is being done with extension but feels that as long as her kids are coping, happy and still enjoying learning then that's just as important rather than pushing and pushing just to see how far they can go....if you know what I mean...

I understand what your friend means, and I agree with her to a point, but this is exactly the relaxed approach I took with DD (grade 4, has been academically advanced since kinder), and the result is that she has never been challenged, has never learnt to cope with challenges, and completely goes to pieces if she can't do something easily, perfectly and in 3 seconds flat I'm only just realising that I didn't push enough with her, and now, since I've been talking to her teacher about the possibility of her being G/T, her teacher is 'backpeddling' and trying to convince me that DD is not very advanced at all. I'm wondering if she's right or if DD is underachieving due to never being recognised/pushed? So, I'm very wary of treading the same path with DS, if you know what I mean!

I am absolutely kicking myself that I didn't organise testing earlier this year, but anyway, I'm on to it now and hopefully the results will give me some guidance about where my kids are at and what to do with them next!

Thanks again for the replies ladies, I'm ever so grateful

[mamaknits]

Delayfish, according to the GERRIC conference, if there are no underlying problems (e.g. 2E), then the emotional maturity is somewhere between the chronological age and cognitive age (slightly closer to the cognitive age). Social maturity is similar to emotional maturity. I know this is a general statement, and does not apply to everyone, but from what I seein my own child, I think this would be about right.

ETA: If you have time to read it, you can look up "a nation deceived". It provides some useful and interesting information about acceleration. It may not sway you either way, I think, but is informative.

This post has been edited by mamaknits: 12/11/2011, 08:25 PM

[baddmammajamma]

Hi delayfish, I am on my iPhone so please forgive any choppiness or errors. My 2e daughter is not socially ready for a grade skip (mild ASD) but is academically working well above grade level. What has worked for us is subject matter acceleration than a full fledged acceleration. She is in kindergarten/prep yet does a significant amount of coursework with the gifted students in grades 1 and 2. Now that that arrangement has worked out well and she has gained more comfort in being with older kids, we will have more flexibility to contemplate more radical subject matter acceleration. She is on an ILP, primarily because there's no other child profiled the same way (her level of giftedness PLUS the special needs). So far, so good. Her school has really gone out of their way to tailor an individual program for her. Best wishes!