[DutchessVonMinx]

I realise that QLD education has done a whole new overhaul with the curriculum, but i am a little concerned with the way we are being too precious with some of these kids.

My daughter is in grade 2 and is extremely smart (and I’m not saying that because i think the sun shines out her rear - I’m well aware of all her faults and would gladly list them ) but when i have meetings with her teachers and look at her work there is really nothing negative.

for example, her writing book - each day they write a story or recount something that has happened recently and her spelling isn’t fantastic, and i have discovered because they don’t correct words - there will be one or two corrections and then nothing. When i queried this, the teacher explained they cannot tell a child that they are wrong too often or they won’t want to try... im sorry???


yes, we don’t want to put children down and belittle them, but now we cant even correct their mistakes?? how are they going to learn???

here i am wondering why we have stupid teenagers who spell lyk dis nd think its kool 2 sound stoopid nd rite lyk dat... arent they at school to learn correctly??? so they head out into the real world armed with all the tools to live a successful life. If i had someone apply to me who couldn’t even spell correctly, why on earth would i place them in a position??

I worked in childcare, and we were instructed not to say good boy or good girl because that is offensive to the children that aren’t good... WHAT???

we are so worried about babying the children that may be lacking in some areas, rather than pushing them to strive to excel more.


I remember being at school, a nice big red marker that corrected every damn mistake i made. Because of this i can write coherent sentence (mostly

[howdo]

I would argue the reasoning you have given for your examples.

i have discovered because they don’t correct words - there will be one or two corrections and then nothing. When i queried this, the teacher explained they cannot tell a child that they are wrong too often or they won’t want to try... im sorry???

The reasoning behind that is not 'because they won't want to try' (seriously what was she thinking?) It's more along the lines of phonetic and invented spelling as part of phonetic knowledge. When teaching the child to write the first desire to to get them writing - to make any mark at all. then we teach them phonological awareness and reward when they show phonological awareness - by inventing spelling that is phonological.

Not correcting that by year 2 is doing the child a disservice but the EFFORT is still praised because we don't want them to stop trying. I don't know where she got the idea you cannot tell a child they are wrong too often, but the idea behind it is more to tell them they are doing a good job *more frequently*.

I worked in childcare, and we were instructed not to say good boy or good girl because that is offensive to the children that aren’t good... WHAT???

Another one I have never heard that particular rationale for. the ACTUAL reasoning behind that is that you need to praise the child's behaviour - not for being a girl or a boy which is what good girl or good boy sounds like to a wee one. By identifying their actual behaviour you are showing them/sharing with them exactly what it is you appreciate and want them to replicate and not giving a mindless platitude that tells them there mere existence is all that is required.

"Good reading" or "Good job cleaning up" is MUCH more positive and appropriate. The reasoning behind it isn't related to not offending the other child in any rationale I have ever heard on the subject.

*Has a rant about half applied teaching and learning and behaviour management strategies*

[Spring Chickadee]

My spelling is atrocious, this may be partially due to my Dyslexia/Scotopic sensitivity syndrome, but there are many words I stop and think 'I really don't know how to spell that'. For this reason I avoid handwriting as I won't have my precious spell check to protect me.

I went to a mid range private school until y6 and a high end private school for 7-12. My Dyslexia was not picked up until the second term of yr 12. Not because any of my teachers raised a real concern, but because I'd become very aware something was not right.

Looking back on my work from primary school the spelling has always been terrible. yes, there is the side that is due to the Dyslexia/Scotopic sensitivity syndrome, but many words I just never learnt correctly to begin with. I found some marked work didn't have mark ups over some obvious errors. I know I would have preferred plenty of big red X's early on so I could have gotten into the habit of spelling these words correctly.

[toosenuf]

Totally agree with you OP.

The only salvation is that hopefuly a future teacher will teach you DD self correction. Pretty sure it is when they have to correct their own work. Before this was taught to my DDs, who sound much like your DD, i would correct my child at home, not with a red pen or anything just verbally advise them that it was wrong and they would re-write it, this was mostly spelling though.

[roses7]

for example, her writing book - each day they write a story or recount something that has happened recently and her spelling isn’t fantastic, and i have discovered because they don’t correct words - there will be one or two corrections and then nothing. When i queried this, the teacher explained they cannot tell a child that they are wrong too often or they won’t want to try... im sorry???


I worked in childcare, and we were instructed not to say good boy or good girl because that is offensive to the children that aren’t good... WHAT???

My DD is only in FYOS but the teacher only corrects a couple of her words in each sentence. She just writes the word correctly in a small and unobtrusive way and certainly not in a big red pen. My DD is a bit of a perfectionist and if she can't do something perfectly she often won't try at all. Her teacher is helping her to learn that making mistakes is part of learning. When she is older they will correct more. I would have expected most mistakes to be corrected by Yr 2 but perhaps I am wrong - we will see!

But I have to say that when DD writes numbers she sometimes writes them backwards. When I point this out she invariably responds "it doesn't matter". But I tell her that it does matter, that there is a right and a wrong way to write numbers. It doesn't matter if she makes a mistake but she needs to learn from it, not just shrug it off. It's a difficult balancing act and I don't envy the teachers!

And on the "good boy/good girl" issue, my childrens' preschool does not use this language. But it has nothing to do with offending children. It is to do with encouraging them to appraise themselves and their own behaviour. They ask the children what they think about their own work or behaviour so that the kids start to set their own standards rather than just looking to adults to praise them. Also those phrases like "good boy" or "good job!" get trotted out so often that they become meaningless to children.

[howdo]

Another point to remember is that if the lesson is about writing and you have asked them to write using adjectives for example you are not assessing spelling or punctuation, nor do you have the time to mark spelling and punctuation because that isn't the focus.

I will often tell students not to worry about spelling because I am looking for punctuation or adjectives or use of dialogue or whatever. If a child worries so much that they cannot spell all the words it frequently stops them from writing anything at all and they don't show that they are perfectly adept at using dialogue because they get hung up on the spelling.

[MegzG]

here i am wondering why we have stupid teenagers who spell lyk dis nd think its kool 2 sound stoopid nd rite lyk dat... arent they at school to learn correctly??? so they head out into the real world armed with all the tools to live a successful life. If i had someone apply to me who couldn’t even spell correctly, why on earth would i place them in a position??

i have a fb friend who writes all her status' like that- it makes me want to scream

she is 28 years old with a 2 year old daughter, we are not 13 anymore

[bye]

I will often tell students not to worry about spelling because I am looking for punctuation or adjectives or use of dialogue or whatever. If a child worries so much that they cannot spell all the words it frequently stops them from writing anything at all and they don't show that they are perfectly adept at using dialogue because they get hung up on the spelling.

I do this often too - and it could be misconstrued by parents. But as I tell my students, I'd much rather see a text littered with errors, but also with unusual words, exciting sentence structure and a gripping storyline, than a sanitised, perfect text that bores the reader to tears.

[Thestral]

When i queried this, the teacher explained they cannot tell a child that they are wrong too often or they won’t want to try... im sorry???

I would query this by saying that by correcting a child's work you aren't telling them they are WRONG. You can tell the children they have done a fantastic job of choosing the spelling choices they have for the words they used in their recount, and then talk about the correct spelling choices for that word and write the correct spelling above the words they have spelt wrong. Or even if you don't correct it on the page, conference with the child about the different spelling choices they have used for different words and maybe the words they spelt wrong/if there is a pattern with these mistakes/etc.

This is what I usually do. I am a Prep teacher.

I don't believe in telling children they are 'wrong' (because usually in their own eyes they aren't wrong - they are using the knowledge that they have to complete their work to the best of their ability) but I do believe in conferencing with children to discuss their strategies and improve their learning.

I also when to a PD in which we were told an interesting perspective on the issue - many children these days focus far too much on spelling words rather than getting their thoughts down on the page. This particular presenter argued that children should get their thoughts down on the page first, THEN concentrate on spelling/conferencing with teacher regarding spelling choices LATER. Just something interesting that I heard from this PD.

This post has been edited by Snowgum: 17/05/2012, 05:51 PM

[mudskippa]

Ha ha - wait until they are teenagers and make frustrated sounds every time you point out an error because 'nobody cares about that stuff'. The teachers certainly do not by that age.