There is a table in this document here showing the different particle size http://www.theorganicmakeupcompany.com/CA/...niumdioxide.asp

I heard back from Wotnot and the particle size is 7 microns (and the zinc is dispersed in jojoba oil).
Carla wouldnt that put it in the larger scale rather than micronized (just going by the table above, micronized being between 1 and 2.5 microns)

I think that you could determine whether the Wotnot package was new or old stock by seeing if macadamia nut oil was listed on the ingredients as they removed that from the new formulation.

Another thing to watch out for ...
When I contacted Hamilton to find out which suncreens didn't contain nano zinc, they listed a few of their products (which I listed earlier in this thread).
The reason they have no nano zinc is because (drum roll please ... ) they contain no zinc at all!
It's so frustrating.
Half the sunscreens seem to be shouting from the rooftops "we don't use chemical sun blockers" but then they do use nano zinc (like the Avado organics ones), while others claim "we don't use nano zinc" but they use chemical sun blockers.
I've been using the Natural Instincts but am very interested if some of the others are back to using larger size particles.
Just btw, I used some old sunscreen on my kids yesterday. It was white and greasy and when they went swimming, the water beaded on their skin. Just like suncreen used to be!!!

There is a push out there at the moment it seems calling for companies to stop using the nano zinc until it has been properly researched and tested which is why some are starting to change their formulations so we might see more following suit.

I have ordered some Wotnot but think that I will probably also do an order of the Hara one once I find out what the shelf life is to give that one a try too. If anyone else is keen (am assuming you Carla) let me know and once I have the details we can go from there.

Expiry date for the Hara sunscreen is 2011

Yea, I'd have a couple of the Hara ones, Mich

Ok I am happy to order for those that want some of the Hara, obviously there may be slight variation in the cost depending on quantity and the exchange rate.
The sunscreen tubes are US$8.99 plus US$13 postage for up to 5 tubes. 5 tubes and post would be US$57.95 which is about A$63.45 that works out to about A$12.69 each (assuming that we order in sets of 5)
Let me know how many you would like if you are keen

Hi there,

I'm using Natural Instincts at the moment, I skim read a lot of the previous pages but didn't find the conclusion of if it was a "yay" or "nay" lol. Does it use nano particles? If so, I'd be interested in some of the Hara MichP. Do you have a list of ingredients at all, my DD's skin reacts to just about anything

Cheers.

Most Natural Instincts products are TERRIBLE unfortunately, including their sunscreen. It's a no from me. Yes, it's Nano.

They've also added sulphates back into their shampoos and baby bath washes etc, and they've recently been in trouble for not declaring ingredients on their labels. I wouldn't go near any of them with a barge pole!

Hmmm... it's funny you say that because I still had last years stock of sunscreen and went to buy more and noticed it was in a different package and didn't have the ingredients listed ... just a nice big label saying "New Formula". That got me sus so I didn't buy it and was planning on contacting them to find out WHY they weren't putting the ingredients of this "fabulous" new formula on the label. Grrr...

I use Sukin Organics for all my other "stuff" (shampoo, conditioner etc) ... do you know much about that brand?

In that case can I get you to order a bottle for me? PM me your details and I'll be in contact.

active ingredients: zinc oxide 20.3%
other ingredients: olea europaea (olive) fruit oil, beeswax, simmondsia chinesis (jojoba) seed oil, cacao (cocoa) seed butter, butyrospermum parkii (shea butter), tocopheryl acetate (vitamin E)

I looked up Sukin Organics but cant see a sunscreen for them, if you can find a link to that product we can have a look at it.

I am new to all of this but it’s very interesting. What sunscreen brand are you recommending is the best now?

We're not recommending! We're searching for one. Any. Found a safe one? Please join us in our search.

Hi all

I'm going to join the search!

Now to go back through the thread and see what has been rejected so far.

What about this one? GreenScreen Organic Sunscreen
http://www.kabanaskincare.com/proddetail.p...S01FF&cat=8

Ingredients:
25% non-nanoparticle Zinc Oxide
1. 25% Zinc Oxide
2. Eldorado Springs Artesian Water
3. Organic Extra Virgin Olive Oil
4. Organic Jojoba Oil
5. Vegetable Glycerin
6. Organic Shea Butter
7. Vegetable Emulsifying Wax
8. Vegetable Vitamin E

Hi Girls,

You make for interesting reading

Can i just ask what you are using in the mean time until the perfect sunscreen is found?

That was one of the ones that I looked at before and though yippee until I read about the Vegetable Emulsifying Wax (I put a link here a few pages back), it sounds natrual butits not and what I read put me off it. http://safemama.com/lovely/2009/05/04/gues...mulsifying-wax/
As Carla says we arent recommending as such but wading through the info, clarifying what certain ingredients are about so for some they may be fine with the Vegetable Emulsifying Wax or the nano size particles so they can see from in here what products fit the criteria that they choose.


At the moment we have no sunscreen, but I do have some Wotnot on order and will be ordering some of the Hara one to try once I know who wants to go in on the order and how many.

id be interested in ordering some of the Hara too - how does it work?

Yep, put me down for 2 please Mich.

Send your details through and I'm happy to send you an approx figure straightaway then when you get it and know the exact price (exchange rate etc), we can make an adjustment.

Hey Mich,

What size is the tube? I have a few more people interested...

I think post 98 says they're 3Ounces? What's that equate to - about 100grams?

Hi everyone, I also have bee reading thisthread with interest. Although I haven't opened all the links this is something I am very interested in. Living in NQ means we get 100% of our recommended daily uv intake in just 15 minutes of outdorrs time and we have one of the highest rates of skin cancer in the world. (in fact I think it's the highest).

I was just wondering if anyone has thought about making their own sun screen out of zinc with a carrier oil like coconut oil or something? Obviously there is more to it than that. Thoughts?? I'm just a nutter for making my own stuff. Lol.

On a side note, blissfullqueenbee I luff your birth montage

Oh thanks! Did you see it a while ago? I removed the link from my sig accidentally, and have been meaning to go put it back again at some point!


As someone with an open mind, I always wonder about possibilities. What about if that might actually be attributed in some way to the amount of sunscreen being used? Lots of the ingredients in sunscreens have been connected to increasing risk of skin cancer, and in fact - the chances of this occuring is increased dramatically once exposed to UV! Also, if sunscreen is not used properly (ie: put on and then not remembered to be reapplied) the free radicals became dangerous producing a higher risk. There are just so many unknowns. Something to think about anyway.

While searching I have come across a few recipes for making your own, some more complex (quite a few ingredients) others simple (eg zinc & rice bran oil). eg http://www.wabisabibaby.com/blog/2008/abou...safe-sunscreen/. Google make your own sunscreen and you'll find plenty of info.
I guess I hesitate with this with some uncertainty about getting adequate an protection factor and just the time factor, something else for me to nfind time to do (read: I'm being lazy)


Its only a small size tube - 3 oz / 90ml
http://www.sailfit.com/hara_sports_lotion.html

bqb I dare say we would share a lot of the same views on parenting, birth and vaxxing. So I am definately keeping an open mind about these things

This view mostly comes from DP, who reminds me that NQ has the only population of caucasians that live this close to the equator. I guess its hard to rule out the sun as a cancer causer (and not the toxins) when our friends and family are dropping like flies and getting bits of their cancerous skin chopped off all the time. ( Ahhhh yes but could this be from the toxins not the sun . I do here you. ) Anyhow, its a learning process. I am just thankfull for this thread. Off to check out the Hara site now

Thanks for the info MichP

With two red headed chillders with ice white skin, I'm in for the Hara one!! PM me with details!

Ok so far I have:
BQB - 2
nat7878 - 2
ecb - 5
luvmy2bubs - ?
Freakypet - ?


If those wanting to order who havent yet let me know how many they want can do so by Monday afternoon I will get the order in.
Oh will note too that I am in Perth so if you arent local then you would need to factor in postage to you (unless you are ordering 5 and then the package can go straight to you).

Mich, I might order with a friend and do it direct to the company so I can use credit card. Thankyou so much for all the research you've put into this.

I did hear Peter Dingle on the radio talking about sunscreens just a few days ago, did anyone else hear it? Did he offer any suggestions? My phone rang at just the wrong moment - problem with using a handsfree kit that cuts your radio out!

I didnt hear it but have contacted him last month, he said that avoiding the nano particles as well as the other bad stuff would make it very difficult, he could only suggest UV Natural and Soleo which we know uses stuff that we dont want. I have contacted him to let him know about wotnot as a viable option.

Hi Mich, I'm at 8 possibly 9 at the moment, so I might as well just go 10 and get them sent to me. Just curiously, is the Hara better (both quality / value) than the Wot Nots? I know you've tried both and I'm assuming you prefer Hara because that's what you're ordering now, but I just thought I'd check. If you PM me your bank details I'll transfer the money today and I'll PM my address to you to have them sent here.

Cheers and thank you so much for your research.

Hi again Mich,

I've tried to PM you with my address twice now but error messages keep coming up and deleting everything I've written so I'm not sure if you've received anything...

If you PM me I'll try replying that way!

Cheers, Vanesssa

Vanessa I am just popping in and then straight back out again so will message you when I get back tonight.

I havent tried the Hara as yet so cant comment on what it is like, this order will be the trial. The tube for the Hara one is slightly smaller than the wotnot but is a little cheaper. I havent worked it out properly but I think that the Hara works out slightly cheaper.

Thanks for the sunscreen thread ladies! I brought mine out to see what the ingredients were also. It is so scary what they put into things!

When my children were little in Canada, all mosquito repellent you could buy had DEET in it (it is a farm-grade pesticide)! I just kept my kids inside that summer, much to everyone's distress, mine included!

Can you tell me more about the paraben?

This article here by Dr Peter Dingle has a bit of info on the most used chemicals http://drdingle.com/docs/sunsreens_final1.pdf, there is an itemised list at the end too listing what to avoid.
There is some info on parabens in cosmetics here http://thenaturalhealthguide.com.au/review...riends-or-foes/ If you do a google search for paraben you will get a heap of likes with info both for and against parabens.

That cosmetics data base is scary stuff .

I'm heavily researching toxins in cleaning products and body care products due to some severe allergic reactions I had a while ago so this thread has been great. Thanks to all who put in the time so people like me can quickly reference the sunscreens.

I'm actually going to have a crack at making my own. (Call me crazy, but I love making my own stuff.)

Has anyone had any experience with the zinc oxide in the pure form? I know BQB you said a while back you had some stuff you were going to mix with a cream to use? What about the powdered stuff?

I have had a brief look online and many zinc oxides seem to contain titanium oxide which is worrying.

I've recently bought some wotnot and I didn't really like it. It irritated my skin and I still got burnt.

I just bought some UV natural today so I will see how that goes.

Orders in.

sorry michp, I really meant to get back to you - but was trying to work out money issues, it took longer than I thought, etc.....!

Sorry if I stuffed you round!

Let me know how you go with it!

FWIW I have just heard back from Natural Instincts Sunscreen.
They report that their company went into receivership but has recently been bought by BC Health.
They confirm that their "Natural Instincts Mineral Sunscreen" does not contain any nano zinc.
It contains only natural ingredients and no chemical sunblockers. The active ingredient is 20% zinc oxide.
It used to say on the website that they used no nano or micronized zinc but this is no longer on their website.
It does contain the preservative Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate.

After so much searching, I've settled on the Natural Instincts for this summer. I honestly don't think it is possible to get sunscreen where zinc is the active ingredient and where the zinc is non-micronised and non-nano. Every 'organic', 'natural' etc suncreen company I've written to (except NI), have confirmed that they use nano zinc. Some companies seem to be getting around it by using micronised zinc instead. While I refuse to even consider nano zinc, I'm left settling for micronised zinc (which I'm guessing NI has) because there really doesn't seem any other option.

I guess there's some reason the zinc particles have to be so small. It doesn't make sense that normal particle sized zinc would rub into your skin. Think of products that contain non-micro/non-nano zinc ... the old zinc sticks which you'd put on your nose and lips, or even the baby zinc / castor oil nappy cream. There's no way they would rub clear into your skin.

So .. I guess I've just become a cynic!
I'll be really interested to hear how everyone goes with the Hara. They look great by their website, but if the stuff rubs in, I'd be very suspicious about the particle size.

I've also settled on the NI because it's easy to get, Australian made, and relatively cheap.

I say I'll use it for this summer because I am still open to changing if a better suncreen can be found. (I seem to change suncreens every couple of months!) If the Hara turns out to be good, perhaps we could lobby a health food shop chain to stock it. I have no doubt that there are heaps of people out there who are still searching for a natural ingredients / no chemical sun blockers / non nano / non micronized sunscreen.

**ed to add - I also tried to make my own sunscreen. I found a recipe online which had zinc baby cream, glycerin and water in it. It was highly unsuccessful!!!

Thanks Mich. I hope the money cleared no worries into your acct.

StillRoz - good to know about NI, I still have some leftover here so I wont feel too bad using the rest of it up!

Havent checked yet but I am sure it will be fine. I still have to pay some additional postage (the online ordering only factors in local US shipping) so once that is done and I know the final cost I will let you guys who ordered know. The exchange rate was a little lower than when I calculated so there will be a slight difference. I am going away on Sunday but will be back on Christmas eve.

This thread is great, thanks to all for their research. I have been using Grahams SunClear since spring, I have lost track - is it on the "recommended" list or not? It's a bit greasy for my liking, but I could live with that. Today was hot here, and unfortunately DD2 is a little "pink" on the cheeks this evening, I think maybe we didn't reapply often enough while she was swimming.

Is the Invisible Zinc on or off "the list"??

As mentioned before it is entirely up to you whether you decide something is on or off your personal list. For me Invisible Zinc is off (will just find some info that aI sent to someone else in that one)

Carla looked into the Grahams one so she's probably a better one to answer about that, its not on my list.

Just a quickie for those with orders in. They are posting them over the weekend and also said that since we ordered so many they will give us discount which she will deduct from the shipping cost that is still to be paid. As you know I am away from tomorrow for 10 days so when I get back sI hould know the final total cost and can let you all know what that works out to be.

Well I decided today to chuck out the Grahams SunClear, it is very drying on my DD's skin (she's 3) and doesn't really perform all that well.

So back on the hunt. I have a heap of friends who have all switched to Invisible Zinc and are raving about it, the lady at the health food store tried to sell me that one, but according to this thread, posters have reservations/concerns.

I was googling Peter Dingle, and saw a comment (not from him) re the Cancer Council "Natural" sunscreen, a green tube - anyone have an opinion on that?

Can anyone recommend me a sunscreen that I can buy this weekend (it's hot here atm and the kids are living in the pool) that is at least better than the "bad ones" as such? We always wear rashies, hats, etc etc, but I do need a good sunscreen. Help!

Mich, Sweet, can you check your account? I PMed you a little while ago. I thought I'd paid, but can't see the money come out of my account. Is it in yours?

Good to see everyone is settling on something that suits their family. I've got no clue Zande, sorry. Wish I did.

I just don't trust Natural Intincts at all personally, after they were done for not even declaring ingredients on their labels. They don't supply samples or have testers instore either, which I don't like.

The Invisible Zinc guy was SOOOOOOOOOOO rude to me, I'd boycott them anyway I think. LOL

I'm not fussed at all if the Hara rubs in clear - I agree that if it rubs in clear, it's probably nano or micro. That's the point of all their claims. I'd be much happier to find something that didn't. We cover elbows to knees anyway with a long rashie suit, so it's only small areas I'd need to use sunblock on anyway.

I think I remember reading that Peter Dingle replied to Mich and said that if you want to avoid chemical blockers, paraben preservatives AND nano/micro that you're pretty well stuffed.

Hi Carla, we just got back from down south so I'll try and check our bank account tonight. I have a million (well not quite, but lots!) emails to sort through and there is one there from Hara about the postage so should have the final amount after that.

I will say that we used our Wotnot while down south. It did work well in terms of sun protection but it is VERY greasy. It also doesnt leave a white residue so even though my particle scale says that the size that they told me puts it in the larger size range that fact would indicate to me that the particles are on the smaller side.


I have been trying to get info on the Cancer Council sunscreen but getting the run around. First the company that supplies the CC wants to know why I want to know, so I tell them
They come back with
So I have just respnded with
If I get a straight answer from them I will let you know!

Just updating on the costing. They ended up $12 each incl post, they gave us a bit of a bulk order discount which offset the lower exchange rate.
They were posted on the 14th so shouldnt be too far away.
Oh and I will mention that Meka from Sailfit was lovely to deal with.