Why?

I'm genuinely interested in finding out why people don't buy 'socially acceptable' food products.

I'm not trying to start a debate, so please keep it nice!

We really do try and am starting to really learn more now (and having my eyes very much opened by reading the Ethics of What We Eat, at the moment) BUT the main things we haven't switched over yet, are because of the price. And sadly, it is because we use alot of them, that it makes it even more unaffordable, but at the same time, those are obv. the things we could really be making a difference with (seen as we use alot of them), like milk and cheese. I guess we could start substituting half...

Other things we have simply cut down on, so we can afford the organic/ FR/ FT versions... such as meat, chocolate etc.

In one word.....

affordability!

We do our best, but .... butter is my downfall . We don't buy organic butter because it's just so darn expensive .

Easy. Cost.

I would love to be able to afford to by more ethically but in the meantime I have to feed my family on a budget. I have this debate with myself everytime I go shopping.

What a GREAT idea Ali. I would be very interested in starting an organic veggie co-op in Brisbane but have no idea how to go about it.

I think for most people who do think ethically it is cost and availability. We could do better and where we fail it is cost and time.

However, I really think that if you don't want to start a debate, asking a question in a debating type forum is a bad idea!

I don't buy organic because I can't afford it.

I do buy ethically farmed animal products, but that's as far as I can push my budget.

.

I buy organic/free range etc when I CAN afford it. When I can't, I don't feel the slightest bit guilty.

I do the best I can with what I've got. I'm in the process of slowly changing my pantry goods over to organic stuffs. I'm not going to throw out tonnes of stuff just to make a point. I'm buying one or two things a week.

Do what you can with what you've got. Start small. Gradually change over.

Tip. DEFINITELY buy organic cocoa!! OMG!!! IT is LUSH!!!

I try to buy organic where possible. Always chicken products are free range or organic for me. A little different for vegies, flour etc. I would love to go completely organic, socially responsible foods but as PPs have said, the cost gets me at times.

Affordability and nothing is completely organic. It may claim to be organic but along the process the animal may have been contaminated with water and food which has been tainted with chemical fertiliser or pesticide. Cattle are treated with chemicals for worms, etc. The only way to be completely 100% organic is to grow it yourself and kill it yourself.

For me........cost, and laziness....... I always buy free range eggs....but as for the other stuff.....

We try, but our obstacles are affordability and availability.

I always buy free range eggs and free range chicken. Most of our fruit & vege are organic and I buy Free Trade coffee beans.

For things that I don't it is because of cost with regards to other free range meats & organic product but regarding Free Trade, I'll admit to not knowing a lot about it other than in the coffee bean field and that's only because a lot of coffee houses I got to have the flyer about it so I read it.

Cost and availability are the issues for us. We always buy free range organic eggs (and are careful about the source, don't just go by the label) and free range, preferably organic chicken. Chocolate and coffee are the other two absolutes.

Descentia I have found a co-op on the Sunshine coast which is organic but there doesn't seem to be one on our side of town. I guess it's easy on the Sunshine coast because of the suppliers. F&V tend to be outside my budget for organic.

Cost is an issue for us as well. Sadly, we just cannot afford it. In fact my borther and his wife, who have been buying organic everything since they moved in together are now havingto turn to the "dark side" They are expecting there second child and have a mortgage. If they want my sil to continue to stay at home, they have to tighten thier belts, regretfully so.

Hayley

Like others, cost mainly.

Also the fact that descriptions of products can be deceiving and I'm sceptical that products are as described and actually what I'm apparently paying top dollar for...

I buy free range eggs, we call them happy chicken eggs but that's about it. I try to shop responsibly by buying everything that I can 'Made in Australia' and don't buy pork because I can't afford free range and refuse to support the cruel way farmed pigs are treated. Other than that I can't buy the other things because it would easily double or triple my budget.

In one word - COST!

Free range chickens would not be classed as "happy chickens" in my book - they have their own set of welfare problems. Free range is still an intensive farming method and these chickens are not roaming free in lovely fresh paddocks...

One and only reason is the PRICE of things!

Price!

We already only eat meat 2 or 3 times a week due to price. I also have to eat gluten free which is tough at the best of times. I go without a lot of meals so I can afford the groceries for everyone else. If I tried to buy organic/free range etc, we'd all be going without!

OK, for those that said price/ cost (including myself), what could you sacrifice/ change about your lifestyle or eating habits, so you could afford it? Would you be willing to do that?

Yep, cost for us too.

We always get free range eggs, and will buy free trade coffee & chocolate if it's easily available.

Almost never buy organic meat though. It's just too expensive.

I prefer to buy a local product when possible as opposed to one that may be organic but have travelled miles and miles.

dixiebelle - I'm sure there are things I could sacrifice to put more money into buying organic products and those better for the environment/more socially acceptable. But again I am sceptical about a lot of products being what they claim to be. I admit my environmental and social conscience has become more relaxed since starting a family though I've become focussed on convenience and cost. Not good really, I should give myself a kick in the bum.

I spent years studying environmental management at uni so I know what I should be doing

To be honest I cant think of anything. I am pretty tight and try and get the best deal on most things I buy. So I can't think of anything else I could cut out. Perhaps when I go back to work it would be something I could afford to incorporate in my day to day life.

Sorry but with the rising cost of pretty much everything, there really is no room to scrimp on anything in our budget to allow for all organic products in our shopping. I know it may seem environmentally irresponsible and selfish but there you have it. I am having my third child. I have to make do. Like everyone else.

Hayley

We buy fair trade coffee and chocolate, we buy organic for some items, but far from all food is organic.

I don't have a desire to buy everything organic, where as some items I do want organic.

I would never buy cage eggs, and actually buy organic eggs, we also buy some vegies organic. I don't buy organic red meat, but I also have faith (maybe incorrectly) in the meat that we buy. I don't buy organic chicken, but do buy laconica ?Sp.

I nearly cried today when I bought DS some much needed winter clothes (he's just had a growth spurt) from Target for $2/$3 each. I'll light a candle tonight for whoever it is that made them - I may not know the exact details but I'm pretty darn sure that someone somewhere got exploited in a big way.

As for food - we buy homebrand most things - we are on a super tight budget. The only thing I refuse to budge on is healthy snacks for DS (vege chips etc), and organic, free-range eggs. If we can't afford the eggs, we don't have the eggs. I would also buy organic, free-range meat, but am yet to find any where we are.

Can I cut back on something else in order to shop the way I would prefer? No. Not a chance in hell. Happy to PM you my budget if you wish to have a try. We put a roof over our heads, we pay the bills and we eat. That's it. Any extra's that we have at the moment are donated. We 'borrowed' the money today to buy the clothes I bought. Yes, it does bug me that we can't buy more 'responsibly'. I'd particularly like to buy DS organic food, and stick to Australian products. I also can't wait to afford sustainable electricity. Ah, I have my dreams

As soon as we win the Lotto, DH and I have the plans for our own fully sustainable land Up high, to account for rising sea levels. I dream about it all the time lol.

Kasie that is such a good point about clothing. OK our budget does extend to organic food, shampoos etc but I feel terrible about things like clothing.
It is fairly easy to dress DD in "ethical" clothing as there is a fair bit made locally for little kids. I also support a couple of WAHM when it comes to clothing.
I am terribly guilty of not knowing the background of the fabrics though.

For the rest of the family there is little choice. There is no local clothing industry here but I do at least try to source clothing from NZ or Aust. companies in the hope that some human rights management is in place.

Not all products from OS are made under poor conditions but how do we find out what the background is for the products we buy?

Some of the big names such as Nike who were in trouble in the past for poor practices have made changes for the better, hopefully many more will do the same.

Primarily the cost. We CAN afford it but I have other priorities ... other things I'd rather spend my money on. BUT, I'm not completely bad - we recycle, reuse, give to charity, our council uses food-waste, I using 'safe' moisturizers even if they do cost a bit more than normal stuff, I don't buy anything that will be wasted or not used, I turn things off at the wall, use the dryer about an hour a year, use the diswasher at night, turn unused lights off, put the heater on at night and layer in the day, have one car, etc.

Also, while there is no debate about free-range or free-trade and their benefits, there IS some debate on whether organic is really good for you and whether non-organic is really bad for you.

We chose organic for two reasons. Firstly while there is a choice I would rather limit the amount of chemicals my family ingest so from that POV organic is better for us.

The other reason is that organic and sustainable practices are better for the environment which is better for everyone.

On Today Tonight?

Because I honestly don't think about it.

When we shop, we go by price.

I did blog about eco-fashion a while ago, and had a letter published in G magazine about it too... it is hard in Australia to find affordable, suitable & truly eco-friendly Aussie made clothes... buying/ receiving pre-loved clothes is one way!

I totally understand that many people are on tight budgets, and some are going to be feeling the pinch soon, if not already... but for many, I think they could find areas they could cut back in to afford more ethical buying choices (which can be more expensive) but choose not to.

can you pm or put a link here DB on eco fashion

Thanks

I could probably afford to buy organic, but i really do think its an absolute rip off in supermarkets etc. I prefer shopping at the local fresh markets once a week. Fresh local produce... yummy.

The only organic items I believe are a must - are eggs and chicken. Dont care if I have to spend extra on those.

we eat 90% organic. we have afew things we don't due to availability and cost, like butter and cheese but our consumption of these is minimal also stuff like bbq sauce and soy sauce, but i did see organic soy sauce today so when we run out i will buy that one.
i buy all our fruit and veg from a guy who is wonderful and i met at his market stall, he also works from a factory where you can go all week if you can't make the market. he sells everything organic and stuff like prunes and flour etc from him is cheaper than woolies normal stuff!
we use organic, or almost organic skincare and shower products.
we don't eat red meat and we eat chicken from a farmer who has applied for certified organic status, but is going through the motions, so 'uncertified organic' chook!
dd pretty much eats all organic.
we dont wear organic clothes though due to cost and also choice.
we could become far better but we recycle and will soon have our own veggie garden, we also hope to be off the grid and self sufficient to a degree in 10 years or less.
that said, we travel overseas so our carbon footprint is large there.
i do feel lucky that we have the choice though. to travel and eat well and have fresh food and water.
C

The price is a big thing for us. We visited the organic markets in East Perth a couple of weekends ago with the best of intentions, then once I saw the price ($10/kg for apples, for example) hastily beat a retreat. Eventually I would like to grow my own vegies - the gardens there inspired me - but I have absolutely no idea where to start. Our last attempt was a dismal failure. Once we have our own place I'd like to get chooks.

I buy free range eggs, but have had some trouble finding free trade cocoa. Most of our clothes are second hand.

Honestly, if someone can tell me where to buy organic goods in Perth that aren't well beyond my means, I'd definitely check it out.

I've listened to a number of debates on AM radio from scientists about sustainable farming/organic farming and it's benefits/drawbacks eg sustainability cannot sustain billions as too much land is needed. Re. organic products - the diseases prevented by pesticides/herbicides are more deadly that the pesticide/herbicide itself AND that there is no long term evidance to show that the 'natural' herbicides/pesticides used are any better for us. But, I understand that equally there is probably no long-term evidance to show that current, commercially used 'un-natural' herbicides/pesticides are particularly great of us either! It's like being between a rock and a hard place - we need the pesticides (whether natural or not) to kill the diseases which kill us but the pesticides might kill us (or generations to come) in the end.

I buy pretty much all certifed organic or biodynamic food. The company I buy from delivers it to me; the fruit and vegetables are from all over the country but they do tell you where which farm it is sourced from, and I do try to preference foods close to me. I do wonder if it would be better to buy all locally-grown produce, though.

I also use organic skincare, shampoos, cleaning products etc, as much as possible.

We don't have very much money. We choose to buy organic because we believe it is important both for our health and for the environment. This has definitely come at the cost of other things. I cut my own hair these days!

Just for anyone who is interested...

http://www.slowfood.com/about_us/eng/where.lasso

Slow Food is a concept that is only just starting in Australia... but it looks like it has a lot of promise.

Anyway, if you go to that site and select Australia from the drop down menu, it brings up contacts for different locations.

Someone might find it useful for finding local producers etc.

ETA: I'm only just starting to get a grasp on the field of biodynamics but I love it so far! My Dad has a property and he's just become organic and biodynamic certified! I can't wait til his crops start coming in and he can send me stuff!!!

People died of unknown causes thousands of years ago ... how do we know it wasn't the accumulation of 'natural' pesticides in their food? Also, sustainable farming was easier. The population wasn't 6 billion (or whatever it is now) a thousand years ago.

Sorry, I think this should be a new thread as obviously I'm going OT

wow Ali what a great site. Do you have any of the clothing, does it wear well, wash and iron well?
Fantastic to see they sell fabric as well.

Thanks

what do you do OP ?

Actually that is true Ali. Just because something is natural doesn't mean that is is better than the synthetic version. The list of things that are allowed in organic farming is longer than what is allowed in non organic farming. Not to mention that our life span is a great deal longer than thousands of years ago.

The best thing to do is find suppliers of produce, organic or non organic, that are close to you so that the food is fresh rather than two days old. Reduce the number of steps between the farmer and you to ensure freshness.

That's not to say that reducing the amount of ANY herbicide/pesticide in our foods is a bad thing.

I am trying to change the way we eat here but when it comes down to it if the choice is to feed my family adequately on non organic or feed them sparingly on organic then the choice is pretty clear IMO.

I would much rather buy produce etc from local non organic suppliers than buy organic produce that has been on a refrigerated truck for two days. The energetics, goodness ands freshness of the food would be substantially better.

Here's some info on biodynamic agriculture if anyone's interested.
http://www.biodynamics.net.au/what_is_biodynamics.htm