My son (9 next week), has noticed one of my girlfriends smoking (she is heavily pregnant). We had a BBQ yesterday, and he has obviously given it a little thought. Today he relayed the conversation he had with above girlfriend's son:

DS: "Your mum shouldn't be smoking when she's pregnant"
9 year old friend: "It's ok - she did it with [son #2], and he is ok"
DS: "Well, he is lucky - the smoke could really make the baby sick!"

He added to me, "as well as [my girlfriend] not knowing how bad it is, I'm surprised [the son] didn't know how dangerous it is!"

My reply: "well - ... he's not in danger of being pregnant anytime soon [insert awkward snigger]... but you're right, it's not good and you're right to say so".

How might you have responded? And have you had any conversations with your children when they start to 'notice' more of what is right and wrong in the world?

I don't think its right to point out to the child that his mother is doing something risky with his unborn sibling. I mean, what can the boy do about it?

IMO your DS is creating a potentially stressful situation for the 9 yo, which he has no control over.

Edited because I said DH when I meant DS

The issue with it is that some people might just see your son as a pretentious brat if he says things like that to them. My 7 year old is always making comments about things and I just remind him that other people live differently than we do and may not know it is bad.

Blow being polite, he is absolutely right. It's undeniable.

I would just say so. Hardly rocket science.


Everyone knows that smoking while pregnant is bad.

I don't see anything wrong with it, him speaking up that is.
He's telling the truth, and I think it's an important lesson for kids, to not smoke.

Really? It is the reality.

And I think 'pretentious brat' springs to mind if he says something to the adult - which he never would, he is more respectful.



I have reacted like that in the past, the reason I posted this was because I think he is now at an age when he can intelligently challenge what he sees, and question other people's actions. By this, I mean within conversation with me or his dad - not outright telling people what they're doing is 'bad' or 'wrong'.

It hasn't happened to me personally (dd only 5) but she does know that everyone is "special" and "different" and I suppose that's how I would approach it, ie a good chance to reinforce that smoking carries risks, to the person and to others such as passive smoking and to a fetus. I perhaps would remind him that it is a habit that some people find hard to stop and the best thing to do is to avoid starting to smoke, so bring it back to him and his future and choices.

I completely agree with this.

I was just thinking about the general community of EB and the reactions that some would have

FWIW when I was about his age I made no smoking signs and put them in every letterbox in my street. My mum was so angry but I thought I was doing a good thing.

Dont blame OP's son for this, blame the friends mother who is doing the smoking. OP's son was only speaking the truth and its good to hear that he seems to understand just how unhealthy smoking is.
If the situations was made awkward or "stressful" for OP's friends son then its Her fault for smoking in the first place.

I think it is good the "don't smoke" message is getting through to kids at such a young age, and that they are aware of the dangers associated with it.

Could be a bit tough on the child he had the conversation with, but it is the truth!

I think its great that the OP's son, at the age of 9, knows about how unhealthy smoking is. As a smoker, and one who just cannot give up at the moment, its fantastic to see more and more of the younger generation so anti-smoking. Hopefully, we are breeding the next generation to be almost non-smokers.

The only issue I can see is that at age 9, kids generally dont know or understand when it is appropriate to say something or not. The OP's son may go up to a smoking pregnant woman with a child of, say 5, with her and say the same thing, or something even more serious about smoking when pg, and actually frighten the child with her.

But kids are known for saying what they think at young ages. Only thursday at swimming lessons my DD looked at a very overweight swimming instructor and yelled out to her "you are very fat, did you know ". The instructor was very good about it but all I wanted was the floor to open and have me go down with it LOL

Coming from someone who doesn't really appreciate kids saying 'you're fat' to me or 'your mum's fat' to DD, I think teaching kids some manners and what's appropriate to say when, is equally as important as teaching them that some things are unhealthy.

Yes, smoking while pregnant is bad...do you think people don't know this already?  It's on the damn packet.  She knows, her 9 year old son probably knows.  OP, it's great your kid knows things like this, and can discuss it with you. Not so great that he feels he can point it out to others who may be upset (the smoker's child).

I agree!


And I agree with this as well!

Honestly, I went to a wedding recently where one of the bridemaids was CHAIN smoking, not just smoking but smoked about 10 in a few hours. I wanted to knock her out.

Dam right shes lucky it was a wedding. Her firstborn was allready underweight because of smoking, I just think its a selfish thing to do.

Most things in life I would say its not polite to say "insert personal comment here" about someone, but I dont give a ****. They should feel guilty. And their children who are going to be led by example probably need a little perspective on it. if you have a parent doing something dodgey the only way your going to work out its wrong is by peer pressure or peer modelling.

My kids all know smoking is incredibly and for your health - and the health of others around them. I'm all for good manners, but when it comes to smoking, it's affecting MY and my childrens' health too - and we don't even smoke!

DH lost his mum to lung cancer after many years of smoking, and so we've been fairly open with our kids about smoking, and how it affects your health. They know what it can do to your lungs, they know it's poison, and while they usually display the ability to "share" such knowledge in appropriate settings, sometimes they step outside the boundaries and express their concern at the wrong time.

DH took DS3 and DD shopping when they were about 3 and 4. They used the parents room, after waiting for a lady who was in there to hurry out and get into her car parked nearby. DH said as soon as they entered the toilet they knew she's been smoking in there - it was overpowering and disgusting. So they did their business and got out to the fresh air quickly - and DH used the opportunity to agree with the kids that smoking was bad for your lungs and made people like his Mum very sick.

As they left the toilet, they walked past a row of parked cars, including the lady who'd been in the toilet before them. I rang DH on the mobile at this point, and they stopped walking while we had a chat. I hear DH mutter something to the kids, then say it again louder, then say through gritted teeth in that "Daddy-whisper" that means business "Get UP off the ground NOW, we're going to the car". And he abruptly ended the conversation with me and hung up.

When he got home he told me they'd stopped to chat right near the woman in the car. Who was having another smoke, leaning out the window. DS3 and DD had seen her, and had done a few little coughs. Then DD started to pretend to gasp for breath, and DS started to cough up a lung. Then they both grabbed at their throats and coughed harder and louder. And then simultaneously dropped to the ground and rolled around on the ground, "dying", holding their throats and coughing desperately.

Dh was mortified, and thought he was about to cop an ear bashing from the smoking woman in the car, so he legged it to our car and strapped the kids in and drove off!!!











Anyway, point is - my kids would possibly have done a very similar thing to the OP, and I'd not mind too much. It's important to me that they are aware of the dangers of smoking and hopefully avoid the nasty habit. And if in their exploration of how and why people DO choose to smoke, they offend a few who do smoke along the way - well I will apologise as necessary but not at the expense of my children learning and knowing the truth about the risks and dangers.

I don't necessarily agree with this. Parents are a strong influence on their children, but all the kids I grew up with whose parents smoked while they were young are strongly anti-smoking. Kids are capable of working it out for themselves.

You don't know what happens at home. He might be there coughing and waving his hand in front of his face when she lights up - we can only hope!

Still, it might pay to encourage talking to mum and dad over talking to his friends about their parents. Just to cover the 'social niceties'.

I cant say I have much of a problem with what your son did OP.


This however I just think is rude. Under no circumstances is smoking healthy. But there are many circumstances where an individual may be obese and it not come as a result of eating junk food.

You may say I have a double standard, and that's fine by me.

If that is what gets called a pretentious brat these days I'd be proud. No one should expect a 7 year old to bit their tongue like an adult, if kids can't make comments so that out of the mouths of babes... then who can? And this is NOT something with a legitimate "everyone is different" aspect. If she was farting at the table I'd say he should learn everyone is different... smoking while pregnant is stupid and irresponsible no matter who is doing it. And its only honest to say so.

My children have never humiliated another human being so cruelly and yet are in a healthy weight range. Shocking I know.

Like what exactly?



Yeah, it is rude, but she was telling the truth... I'm not going to lie to her. Though I neglected to say that after the woman left, I told her it was rude to stare and that she shouldn't say things like that out loud.
I don't know why we should tiptoe around these situations or feel like we should apologise or crawl into a hole... children speak the truth, and should not be forced to do otherwise.

Like when our brains do not produce growth hormone in sufficient quantities or the trigger hormones for cortisol or oestrogen or thyroid. Thyroid can be partially replaced but not completely. And lacking those hormones is something that DOES make it extremely difficult not to be overweight, and depending on the severity, obese.

I am not in that category of severity but I will always be "overweight" because of it. I know people from my hospital experiences who had almost no growth hormone and were very very sick and yes, very obese as a result. It isn't the only example but it is one that isn't as rare as you might think and which very few of the ignoramuses around the traps know anything about. There is no treatment in this country at least (and its only experimental in some other countries).

Okey dokey... I've just learnt something new today and will put my hand up as an ignoramus.
However, it doesn't help when you see obese people eating and/or drinking rubbish.

How do you know they eat rubbish any more or less than you do? Before puberty (ie before my problem materialised) I ate McD's about once a year. In the subsequent years as I fought my weight I also ate McD's about once a year. But I'm sure I was viewed differently on that one occasion...as if I lived there.

Now of course tat I can say I haven't eaten it since 2001 I am on pretty high moral ground hee hee!

My point is there are a ton of reasons you might know nothing about. Depression. Grief. Many different medical conditions. And if you have a medical condition where you're going to be overweight no matter what you eat, I can totally understand saying what's the point of never having junk food if I'm going to be fat anyway?

I just think a lot of this "fat" bashing is about equating 1 fat person with every other fat person...which is partly why Ichoose to express the unfashionable skinny biatch language. I actually have good friends who are skinny (some too skinny!) and who are nice. But I certainly know a LOT who are biatches and in part because they feel morally superior and lord it over us normal or overweight people (I see them do it to perfectly normal looking women too). To everyone who objects to the stereotype think about it the next time you lump the "fat" person you just saw eating junk in with every other fat person.... it isn't your job to say "there's only x % chance you've got a good reason sweetheart".... you don't know that individual's life.

Public health concerns about the very obese have no place in the idiotic moralising of Australian shopping centres imho.

And it is certainly a bad analogy with smoking during pregnancy which is a) incontrovertibly harming a baby b) totally within the mother's control.

And I don't have too much sympathy with the addiction part. I have relatives who quit overnight when they got pregnant, and who quit overnight when they married someone with severe asthma. God knows I understand willpower and its failings but if the life of your baby isn't going to work nothing will.

My DH said to his father when he was a child that he didn't like him smoking. That it was bad for him etc.

Kids will talk. OP, I see no problem with your son saying what he said. The other child obviously has the wrong information by way of him saying that it didn't hurt the other child, obviously the anti-smoking message has not got through to him, IYKWIM. The other child may go back to his mother now & ask her why she smokes, besides the fact that she's pregnant.

As for Shannon's DD & the lady at the shops, yeah it was rude, but no ruder than when I had my overactive thyroid, dropped 15kg & kept being accused of an eating disorder by complete strangers. It works both ways. I felt too sick to eat a lot of the time & when I'd be with my now DH or friends & all I was eating was a slice of bread or a milkshake, I'd get the 'look' from the waiter of 'is that all you're eating?' People judge, the lady will get over it. I love how it's ok to say to someone "you're so skinny", but don't you dare call anyone fat! You might just hurt their feelings!

How about setting an example to your children?

Wow OP, what a special DS you have

I would have responded similarly to you

Out of the mouths of babes they say

Beached of course there are reasons people are skinny that are not a reflection of their personality (1 of my extra-skinny friends just got divorced and looks like a stick figure through stress!)... I think the point is that unlike for fat people there ARE such people as those who lord it over you because they're skinny (the reverse is not true)..and the basic reason is that skinny people for whatever reason get many advantages in society, its like being tall, especially as tallness affects men - they are paid more, respected more, promoted more, for the same job and the same competence. So it is for skinny women in general.

So while I totally sympathise and do not condone rudeness to individuals based on their weight... to make a more general complaint about how "society" treats skinny people is kind of silly - society treats skinny people DAMNED well. Too damned well as a comparative to merit overall.



Who said there were any children? I wasn't talking about me. I was talking about EMPATHY.

 

Of course she pretended to ignore you.  What did you expect her to do, apologize for her morbid obesity?  

It's a shame the lesson you didn't decide to teach at the time was being polite and having regard for other's feelings. 

I agree luckytwo, funniest thing I've read on EB in a long time!!!!

Dude, people don't get fat by eating organic salads.

PC world gone mad!

Children also need to learn appropriate social etiquette. Commenting negatively of someones weight/height/skin colour/appearance etc within earshot is never OK. And may lead to some unsavoury character giving them a crash course on manners one day.

Okay, so you would quite happily let your child comment on someone that is a different race, or has a disability, or has burn scars etc....where it may or may not be offensive to the person in earshot?

oh, and fwiw ... How about if that woman was eating from depression? When it is pointed out in a 'humiliating' way by a child and agreed upon by the parent ... what do you think that may do to someone that is fat/obese through depression?
I'm glad that you corrected your child after the woman left ... but you should have done it while the woman was in earshot and said thsat it is rude to comment on people's appearance and that it doesn't change that they are still a person with feelings.


THIS.



And there are a few ways to get fat ... not all of it is junk food ... there is portion size - you can eat 'healthy' but if you are eating too much of it you will get fat, or carbohydrate/fat rich diets etc.


I don't think it is okay to comment on anyone body shape (muffin topping excluded).

I would be so embarrassed if my child/ren behaved in this way.

Your son's comments would only worry the other boy so I don't see the point of it. Even comments to the mother would be pointless, do you think she somehow missed the 'smoking is bad for your baby' message?

I really dislike smart-mouthed, know-it-all kids giving lectures.

What a rude child but i guess that's what you get when the mother has her head in the sand.



My gorgeous sister had health issues and as a result was overweight growing up. I have 3 sisters and we were all bought up on the same foods, mostly healthy. One sister and myself were always size 6-8, one sister a 12 and my other overweight and my sister has had to deal with ignorant people like yourself.




As cathode said would you let your child comment on other physical appearances of people? or is it only okay to comment on fat people?



No it's not ok. When i was 48kgs and a size 6 i hated being told how skinny i was and that i needed to eat.

Wow... that left me speechless. So much rudeness, ignorance and lack of human decency in one paragraph. I am trying to teach my children about healthy eating, but I am also teaching them about manners, tact and when it is/isn't appropriate to make similar comments.

One of my close friends has bipolar disorder. She used to be a healthy size 10. Now, thanks to her illness and the medication she has to take, she is very overweight. A small child commenting on her weight in the supermarket led to her seriously considering suicide. And THAT mother had the decency to apologise for their child's rudeness - who knows what she would have done if she had come across someone like you.

Oh, so do I.
I would be mortified if my children behaved like some in this thread. Absolutely mortified.

They wouldn't though. And that has nothing to do with not knowing right from wrong. It comes from being taught to be respectful and considerate of others feelings, which does not compromise my/our beliefs and/or knowledge in any way..

I agree with this. Would it have been OK for your son to tell another child that his mother was fat/ugly/dumb?

I would be disgusted if my child had said anything like yours did.




Wow. Just wow. I cannot believe that you would let your child be so rude. What about a lesson in manners?

FWIW one of our very good friend is obese through no fault of his own. He has always been this way, even though he is and always has been quite active (plays rugby union, league and cricket). He also eats fairly well. Neither of his brothers or parents are overweight at all. When we were about 16 he had lots of tests done as they couldn't work out why he was so big when he led quite a healthy life. I'm not sure what the condition is called, but it turns out that he has something wrong with his thyroid (I think that's what it is). No matter what he eats, he still puts weight on. So your ridiculous statement is totally incorrect.

I actually think the children are caught in a difficult situation here. They are bombarded with messages about healthy eating, and the dangers of smoking, and drinking too much alcohol. The awareness campaigns are everywhere, at school, on the television, posters etc. And this is a good thing, and who could say that educating children about these things as early as it is appropriate is a bad thing? We tell them to speak out and be assertive, to not be afraid to tell if they see bullying, or a stranger danger situation, to not be afraid to say something if they see a wrongdoing.

Yet some posters on here think that young children have the maturity to censor comments about these things in public. If the comments the children made about smoking and weight were said as the posters quoted, they don't seem to me to be nasty or personal attacks. They seem more a processing type question...the boy had been told that smoking is bad, esp for unborn babies, and he sees an adult doing it? And he was talking to another child, thats what kids talk about. The young girl in the supermarket was probably just processing things she has heard, 'no, we can't have maccas/chips/lollies now, because too much junk food is not good for you.' Ahhh, there is a large lady, so maybe that happened to her. She didn't make any reference to the ladies size being ugly, or wrong. Yes, it was probably mortifying for the poor lady, but it was a child saying it, an adult saying it would have been completely another story. It's a developmental thing rather than an inappropriate, pretentious thing. But the mum could have said more than 'yes' in the earshot of the lady.

efs

I've never had to confront this because DD is so shy I couldn't get her to speak up to someone if I wanted her to. But hypothetically, if she were to behave as the OP's child here did with regard to the smoking scenario - I'd find that a lot more forgivable than commenting on an overweight person.

I wouldn't be too shocked to hear a toddler pointing out a 'fat' person, but not a child past maybe the age of 4. At that age they should really be taught that commenting loudly on a person's physical attributes is just plain rude and insolent. If my daughter (8yrs) did it I be horrified and I'd get quite cross at her. And definitely apologise.

As for the smoking scenario though, it's probably less cause to get cross at the child I think because they're only repeating things they've been educated about. But I'd still gently correct her and let her know it's ok to just 'know' these things without needing to preach.

I would be mortified if my children behaved like this.

I think your son did well. Some other scenarios mentioned here are crossing the line.

I probably would have wanted to add to DS that although he's right about the smoking, it can be quite hard for someone to accept that someone they love or admire is in the wrong, and that he shouldn't push the issue too hard or let it bother him if his friend doesn't agree with him. Often the person he's talking to knows he truth, deep down. Also he should know that often things aren't quite as simple as they appear, and he should be slow to judge. At the same time, I would have to confirm that he is right about smoking and pregnancy, and that it's not wrong to gently make sure people are informed of the facts.

But how would you feel if a 7yr old came up to you and said you shouldn't drink alcohol because it damages liver cells and if you drink too much you could get cirrhosis, or if you get in a car and drive you could cause an accident etc.
?
I know what I would say and do if a 7yr old came up and tried to lecture me.

I think it is great to keep kids informed about health issues and teach them right from wrong. But I think people have to be wary of telling them that it is basically okay to go and 'spread the word' to their elders - it isn't respectful .... and that would also make them just about as annoying as JW's/BAC's ....

Okaaaay... I have re-read my post and realised how insensitive it sounded. But my daughter was three at the time... it was a completely innocent observation and I certainly didn't reply in a loud voice, in fact, I said "yes" in a hushed tone and changed the subject... eg. "let's go now and get our shopping done". Perhaps I should have said something right then along the lines of "it's rude to say things like that" so that the lady could hear, but I thought the lady was probably embarrassed enough.
If you read further you will see that I did give her a lesson in manners... she now knows (at the age of four) that it is rude to say things about people's appearance and to stare at people. I think my daughter is extremely well behaved and polite, and I was only telling this story of what she did, when she was three, as a means to illustrate that children quite often say and do things that are not meant to be hurtful. They simply tell it as they see it. So in the case of the OP's son commenting on smoking... he is simply telling it as he sees it.
ETA: And in cases where someone has a different appearance (race, disability, etc), I have found most children don't really see a difference... television, media, parents, playgroups, etc, educate children to realise that the world is a diverse place. Children simply see that "some people walk, some people use wheel chairs" or "some people have white skin and some people have black". There's no prejudice and I certainly wouldn't advocate teaching them otherwise.

I have already admitted I'm ignorant of what it's like to be fat for a medical reason (yeah, maybe my head is in the sand on this issue!), so I sincerely apologise to anyone I may have offended.

Oh wow. It's good to know that I'm being paid more, get more respect and more promotions.

What a total load of rubbish! Seeing that I am one of 'those' people who happen to be tall AND (GASP!) skinny, I can honestly say that I have NEVER been given favorable treatment as a result of how I look. I have had to work hard to get to where I am today and I actually take offence at the insinuation that I have been given favorable treatment as a result of how I look. Believe it or not, tall skinny people also get overlooked for jobs.




My son is 3 - the only words he knows at this age are words he hears from us or from childcare. We've never spoken of anyone being fat, and I'm quite sure they wouldn't be talking of things like that at childcare either. In fact, I highly doubt my son would be able to distinguish between 'fat' and 'not fat'. So, if your DD was saying things like that I wonder where she learned them from?

He didn't say this to an adult - he had a discussion with his friend. They are 9.

FWIW, I would rip strips off my kids if I heard them comment on anyone's appearance - which is where this thread has gone.

The implication that my son is a 'smart mouthed know-it-all' is so far from the truth, it's insulting.

this!

I can't believe people are applauding their children for being so judgmental and cruel. A private comment to you is one thing but to actually be happy that you hurt someone else...I'm sorry but I would not be encouraging this.

Also OP, if your son had spoken to the pregnant smoking friend about his concerns then I would applaud that but to tell her son and upset him when he has no control or responsibility in this matter. I would be quietly explaining why his comments were not appropriate.

Agree - interesting you don't afford the same level of decency to the pregnant smoking friend - who, whilst agreed is not making a good choice, is nonetheless an adult, who has feelings.