I'm posting this partly to get feedback on whether this PD is sufficiently detailed (and hourly rate you'd expect), and partly in case it helps others recruiting a nanny as well, as you can copy it if you like.

Here's the edited PD (I have taken out personal info)
I was hoping to find someone for a live-in position for $12 per hour (all meals plus accommodation covered), am I dreaming?
Also I am concerned the hours I am asking for are too much from someone.

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Role summary:
This is a live-in nanny position for a family in Sydney’s inner west. The nanny has sole charge of two children, ages one and three, for five days of 11 hours.
Some light housework and meal preparation is required.

Purpose:
The Nanny is expected to provide loving care and education for the children, advocate for their interests, suggest activities for the children, and contribute to the smooth running of the household. The schedule of duties may change as the children grow, and if you are able to suggest and implement improvements we will appreciate your flexibility. As this is a live-in position, it is important to us that you feel comfortable and welcome in our home. Regular opportunities to review both living and working arrangements will be provided and we will be flexible.

About us:
We both work full-time in ...
We have two dogs...
Hobbies – ...
Interests – ...
Religion – ...


Accommodation:
The family live in a ....
The accommodation provided for the Nanny is a comfortable room....
You will have the choice of exclusive use of a small older bathroom with a shower and toilet adjoining the laundry, or shared use of the modern family bathroom with shower and spa bath.
The main living areas are air conditioned...
The house is cleaned weekly by a professional cleaning service....

Duties:
At the commencement of the position, the duties required are expected to be:
• Sole care of the children from approximately 7:30am to 6:00pm (ten and a half hours)
• Preparation and serving of meals for the children in this time, breakfast lunch dinner and snacks
• Take children on pre-agreed outings and to activities. Eg. Park, local shops, music class, swimming lessons, sports class.
• Tidy up and wash up after children and their meals, sufficient to leave the house as tidy at the end of the day as at the start. During the working day the Nanny is not expected to pick up after the adults in the house.
• Hang laundry from overnight load in the washing machine.
• Once parents have returned from work, 6:00-6:30 preparation of a simple evening meal while parents reconnect with children
• During off-duty hours in the week and on weekends, the Nanny is not expected to clean up or tidy up after the adults and children, except as would be usual in a shared household (i.e., some washing up and meal preparation for shared ).
The exact duties and daily schedule is likely to change as the children grow. The majority of the duties will be care and education of the children, with limited basic meal preparation and light housework.
Changes to the exact duties and schedule we will negotiate together, but the basic mix is expected to remain the same.


Essential requirements for the role:
Positive and loving attitude towards children
Formal childcare education and qualification
2 yrs childcare experience
Driver’s license
Non-smoker
Pass police and working with children check
First Aid certificate

Desirable requirements for the role:
Can swim
Knowledge of Montessori education principles
Interest in child psychology and development

You are not dreaming at all. An au pair position with $660 pay is a very good offer considering the person will have no expenses.

I think the description is very good. You may want to elaborate on the "inner west" and area if you are looking to attract international au pairs. We have had a number and some (like our current one) are excellent.

ETA - oh, sorry just noticed that formal childcare qualifications and 2 years experience are essential for the role - you may find this difficult. Our next au pair has formal teaching qualifications but not 2 years child care experience (maybe if you add up her current au pair position and prior babysitting). This will likely limit your options but you may still find someone good.

It looks great but I think I would add one week night off.......that is, from when you get home at 5.30/6pm she is free to go out and not have to prepare a meal. These are really long days so I think it would help to have that free evening. I guess that is something you could negotiate.

I think you're dreaming. An au pair might take $12 plus board and food, but then she'd be an au pair and not a nanny.

An au pair shoul not have sole charge of children for long periods, especially not pre-school aged children. You rightly want a nanny with formal quals for this job, in which case $12 per hour is not enough. Phone some nanny agencies in Sydney and see what they think the rate for live-ins is.

Also, your ad assumes the nanny is sort of part of the family/household. This is true to an extent, but she has to have some off-duty time. When I was live-in, I spent as little of my off-duty time in the house as possible and I never joined in family meals while I was off-duty. I would cook my own or eat out - I just needed to get away from work, which is reasonable, no?

An au pair/working holiday maker might be happy to join in the family and go with the flow, and would want to save money by eating 'house' food, but again, she'd not necessarily be a sole-charge nanny.

Do you have any other living space for her apart from her bedroom? Do you have a little study which could be her sitting room? Otherwise, how will everyone (especially the children) distinguish between on and off duty?

Dreaming

I think the rate of pay is extremely low for someone who is responsible for your children for 55 hours a week. You'd be able to earn more than that in retail with penalty rates etc. Think about how much you pay your cleaners per hour. It might be an interesting comparison.

A standard work week is between 35 and 40 hours, will you be paying overtime for the additional 15 hours? What about superannuation? Tax? Annual leave? Sick leave? Public holidays? Do/will you have insurance?

I think it is unrealistic to expect an employee to consider themselves part of a "shared household" and thus contribute to domestic duties whilst they are off the clock. You might need to work out conceptually what you are looking for.

It jumps out at me that its involving solo care of the children for ten hours, plus constant tidying (doing laundry and keep house in same standard at evening it was at the morning while also supervising kids) and THEN after that ten hour day cook dinner, PLUS cooking ALL the children's meals and snacks PLUS do her "share" of household chores including cooking shared meals in her off time?

For twelve dollars an hour.

With two years experience, formal childhood education, and preferably knowledge of Montessori education principles and interest in child psychology and development. (Who might well wonder where that helps them in keeping up with the laundry and chores, or, whilst cooking, might wonder if they wouldn't have been better served with a culinary degree...)

I'm not trying to be mean, and I'm sure your children are darling, but... that's a hell of a workload for the money you're offering and the credentials you expect.

One would make more money waiting tables, and not be answerable to their employer for household chores on Sunday afternoons.

Even considering food and accommodation is included, it seems a very low rate esp. considering what you're expecting (i.e. formal qualifications). Don't forget that this rate is supposed to also cover their tax and super. Like another pp suggested to check out the going rates and also what your obligations are esp. considering the hours they will be working and the fact you're also looking for a housekeeper.

I think it sounds rather slave like to me. Would you do all of that for $12 ph?

A very good question Mopey. It's worth thinking about this OP.

Personally I would expect at least double that as a minimum (keep in mind the average working hours of a standard job per week and you're asking them to work overtime as well). Although I've never been an au pair or nanny so I'm not sure about what the standard is.

I also think you are expecting too much as well. Especially all the housework etc

What you are describing is an au pair but even they should not be caring for the children that much on their own.

I do all this and more for FREE! But sure as hell wouldn't do it for someone else for $12 an hour!

Yep I'd call it too - SLAVE that is.

You'd find an unqualified overseas student willing to take on the entire household like that but not a local girl who has attended university etc - she'd want more for herself than being at a family's beck and call for minimal wage.

I would say that all pay (incl room/board) should add up to about $20-$25/hr. So if you figure rent at $150/wk, food at $50/wk, bills at $50/wk (are you including free prepaid mobile and net? What about a car/fuel?) you would need to pay around $16/hr ontop of room+board. If you're providing free use of a car, plus a phone, then you MIGHT be able to get away with $12, but I'd go a bit higher. The hours worked is a bit much, though. I agree with a weeknight off per week, mentioned by PP. Maybe Friday night? You won't have to work the next day, so you could make Friday Night "family night" and nanny could go off and have some fun or just hide out in the room and have a nice bath and read a book.

That works out to about $1100/wk in total value of the pay+perks package. Slightly more expensive than your average daycare for 2 kids x 5 days, but with a LOT more service.

If I were to shop around for a live-in nanny, I'd probably offer:
- $15-16/hr pay
- LOCKABLE room + ensuite w/ a small budget at hire-time for them to buy linens and towels of their own taste
- sole access to a reg'd, insured, reliable car + fuel allowance (pre-paid fuel card, maybe $50 per wk?)
- wireless access, pre-paid mobile phone
- 3-4wks total leave per year + Christmas (or other applicable major cultural holiday)
- Most weekends off-duty w/ $50 bonus offered for quarterly "Date Night" for parents
- No meal prep or night-laundry on Fridays.
- Small private fridge in-room for any special personal food items

And I would expect:
- work hours from 730-6 + dinner started (but not served!), M-Th. 730-6 Fri but no dinner/night-laundry.
- aforementioned quarterly "Date Night" Friday or Saturday w/ bonus pay for this
- feeding, tidying, playing, and general care of children
- all current health/safety certifications
- ECE experience
- preference for a 2nd language or special skill (think yoga, dance, martial art, lifesaving, something cool!)
- 30 day notice of any planned leave (aside from sick leave!)
- current on all immunizations (if you care about that)

Then I would go read The Nanny Diaries and make sure I was NOTHING like the parents in that book.

I think $12 is a bit low. I also think it is a bit rough to expect the nanny to prepare the evening meal for the adults. When I worked as a nanny (live out but 12 hour days) I did all the child meals and limited cleaning ie washing up, ironing kids clothes and tidying toys. Never was I asked to prepare meals for the adults, in fact half the time they would prepare them for me! This was in the UK, so I cannot really compare wage but I was getting that much, after tax over 10 years ago plus lots of perks like international holidays for myself and partner, random gifts and daily "spending" money for me and the child (ie could go and have a coffee at the playcentre with the "kitty money".
ETA: I was unqualified in childcare, but was a professional with tertiary qualifications and worked with children everyday.

Okay, in the harsh light of day I wanted to add that the cooking and cleaning is a bit much.

Our au pair looks after our son from 8 am to 6.30 pm. She is responsible for feeding him, taking him to the park, his washing and keeping him entertained. That is all. Any time we are late or need to leave before 8 am we pay overtime at $15 p/h. We try not to use her help after designated times too much as it is tiring looking after a child for that long.

When we get home, we cook dinner (for us and her) and she has all weeknights and all weekends off. Our current au pair is absolutely amazing and also keeps the house tidy (not cleaning - just puts things away after her and our little man so the house looks neat when we get home). We clean the house.

We also took her away for Christmas (paid for her flights and everything other than special outings she chose at our destination) - she did not work at all during the break and she chose to come with us (other option was to holiday by herself). She has had an extra two weeks fully paid off.

Ok, just read this again and it also seems to me that OP you're also looking for a teacher for your children. You mention they need to understand the principles re Montessori education and also be responsible for the care and education of your children. Sorry, I'd be expecting a minimum of at least $30 per hour for that (taking into account board etc). I doubt whether you would find anyone who met all your requirements willing to work for such a figure.

I agree with all the above PP's. I honestly think you are asking way too much for way to little reward.

Would you come and do all of that for me?
I expect my house is significantly smaller than yours, and I've only got one very easy-going baby to care for, but still, would you do that for $12 an hour?

After 4 years of study for a degree and 2 years of experience (plus supposed knowledge of Montessori) I assure you I wouldn't do any of that for less than $20 an hour.

I could earn more (and work fewer hours, have more perks and much more down-time) sorting mail for Australia Post.

And as for cooking dinner for the whole family?
Dreaming.

What are you after, slave labour?

Sounds like you want a nanny, a teacher and a maid rolled into one.
I think the part about having the house as tidy as it was in the morning is unrealistic and unfair. Do you have the house tidy at the end of each day?

I know nothing about au pairs/nannies etc but I feel that $12/hr is not enough. I'd look at what the award wage is for each of the roles you want her to complete eg:
Childcare educator $750/wk
Cook $700/wk
Cleaner $730/wk
(Super on top of this)
You are wanting all of this for $660/wk..... I think it is unrealistic sadly.
I also think that in your ad it would be good if you listed more of the perks of the job:
- Internet/mobile phone
- Car
- Paid leave
I am interested in how a live in nanny/au pair goes with being "off duty" when under the same roof - as I've said i have no experience in this area so will be keen to read how it works if someone wants to post!

It's very difficult. When I lived in, I always had my own little flat inside their house, once with a separate entrance. The physical layout helped. The nanny's space should be sacrosanct, and if she has any sense she will never, ever have the children in there or they will see it as an extension of their place space. Then it is too difficult for them to understand why it is sometimes off limits.

With older children, they understand provided the parents are consistent in explaining the nanny is off-duty. With little children the parents need to be consistent in enforcing that the nanny is unavailable to the children. If the parents let the children approach the nanny by failing to attend to them quickly enough - there's trouble. , eg, continue sleeping on weekend mornings and allow the children to enter the nanny's room, or let the children cry in the hope/expectation that the nanny will attend to them - it's time for a new job. (This is NOT uncommon from what I hear. Some parents genuinely aren't as attuned to their kids' needs as the nanny, which is hard.)

The best thing is for the nanny to make herself scarce - she should be out enjoying adult company any way!. It's also easier if the off-duty time coincides with parents taking kids out. Everyone tends to get in a rhythm after a while.

Well said Lokum. Please look up Louise Woodward case

Louise Woodward, State Supreme Court decision

I think what your looking for, and for such a low hourly rate is completely unrealistic.

Somebody with formal qualifications and experience could earn 2-3 times more working in a day care or preschool. I can't imagine anybody with qualifications and experience putting their hand up to work a 55 hour week for $12 an hour.

IMHO, you need to:
-Increase the hourly rate
-Cook your own dinner
-Do your own laundry

As a comparison I pay our babysitter $18 cash an hour - yeah ATO shoot me! She's got no qualifications and only babysitting experience. She is a 2nd year teaching uni student.

But for that she only looks after kids. I do not expect her to clean or cook whatsover. I do get her to put dinner on. Ie. I make a lasange/put in fridge. she turns on oven and puts it in at posted time. I get home before it's ready and feed the kids.

I pay my cleaning lady $25 an hour in comparison but she's 74 years old.

For $12 an hour you won't get much and the hours are just too long for a regular job.

As someone who used to work as a (trained) nanny, I think it's a big ask, (unless you are looking to get a foreign person on a work visa).

I know most of the Aussie girls I trained with looked for 'live-out' positions purely because the pay was better and parents didn't just 'expect you to be there' past your time while they work late etc etc - and that was in 1999.

If you are looking to get someone on a working holiday visa, then you'd probably have a better chance, but make sure you allow them enough time to explore/experience Aus.

I think I'd be worried about what kind of person you'd attract who would be desperate enough to do all that for $12/hour, if you know what I mean.

I don't know anything about nannies but is it even legal to work a min. 55 hour week?

Slaves are illegal you know!

Cook your own dinner whilst you connect with your kids! Clean your own house!
The rest of us do!

What they said.

In short I think someone qualified deserves a higher rate of pay, weekends should be completely off duty and nanny should clock off when you walk in the door. That day is too long to be on duty without any break, especially for such a low rate of pay. Besides, as a nanny I would pride myself on caring for children and would feel taken for granted if also expected to cook for adults 5 nights a week. 2 nights perhaps would be a fair share with 3 adults in the house, knocking off at 6 the other nights, including Fridays.

I think you are dreaming. $12 may suit an au pair but not a nanny.

If you are looking to pay a low wage an au pair will be more suited to your family but should not have sole care of the children for that many hours.

The going rate for a live-in nanny in Sydney city and eastern suburbs is currently about $28 an hour. Good ones with the qualifications you are expecting can command a higher rate. They are also rarely expected to cook family dinners. Their duties relate only to the children. You might find someone but if they were any good, they probably wouldn't stay for very long. An au pair is supposed to work a maximum of 30 hours and have nowhere nearly the level of care and duties you are expecting.

Dreaming? No but it might turn out to be a nightmare

When I was looking at getting a nanny about 4 yrs ago, I found that the going rate was between $25 and $30. That is for a nanny, not someone who would do all the things you listed. As someone I know was once told by a nanny she was interviewing, "I am a nnny, not a maid. I look after the children, will cook for them and do their laundry, but I will not clean your whole house, nor do all your laundry, nor cook the evening meal for the whole family". That is fair, I suppose. So I would assume that if you want osmeone to look after your children AND do some housework that was not related to the children, you'd need to be looking at paying about 3 times what yousuggested to make it worthwhile for them.

Also, (at least when I was looking), nannies were willing to work a max of about8 to 10 hours a day. 12 hours would be a big ask. I was looking at a liveout nanny, though, not a live-in one.

So even if you took into account that you were providing a roof over her head and food daily, you'd need to pay a bit more than $12 an hour. Perhaps $20 an hour or more is more appropriate.