Ok eb mummies I need your advice.

Yes I am a teacher. . . .seems silly but . . .

(I am sure DH thinks I am one - or about to become one of - THOSE mums).

Here is my problem . . .

DD#2

FYOS

Recognises random numbers (in numeral not written form) up to 100

At school is learning 1 - 10

Reads most of her magic 200 words and sounds out or picture ques lots of others that astound me.

Is not bringing home readers yet.

I am in no way saying she is gifted but she is above what they are seemingly learning about at school - she did it all last year in preprep (something like 4 year old kinder).

Have made an appointment with her teacher but am not sure what to say.

I want to make sure she is extended but I do not want to be a pushy mum or seen as a "teacher" trying to be pushy IYKWIM.

So how do I put it to her teacher? Who I honestly find absolutely wonderful and DD loves her so I don't want to rock the boat.

DH can't believe that I am even bothering!

I think it is far too early in the school year to be approaching the teacher- they are still assessing kids and getting things in order, you know that!

I'm not sure what you want to say? You obviously feel your child is gifted or at least above average and not being extended? It's only a month into her entire schooling!!

Personally, I would leave it until closer to the end of term, if that, to be honest. FYOS is not about academic prowess.

ETA: I would definitely approach my child's teacher if my child was not enjoying school, was being bullied or was having trouble settling in to the routine etc, but NEVER in a pink fit for not being extended in FYOS, first term.

It's not even halfway through term 1 - wait for parent teacher interviews. Not only will the teacher than have more data collected but you'll be able to speak to the work collected.

With regard to maths though - not sure how much T&D you've done on the maths curriculum yet?

Bear in mind that the new way of extension in maths is through the proficiencies, not the next level.

This is one of the content descriptors that relates to counting to ten:


So "counting to ten" is not just counting to ten. She'd be doing all the rest of it - starting to subitise, linking numerals, written names, sequencing, one to one correspondence etc etc.

They will move beyond ten, for sure but can she do ALL those things with 0-10?

I had the same kind of errrrm "issue" with my DD1.
I have great respect for my DDs teachers, and I kind of brought up the issue after getting a "feel" for how much she knew about DD.
DD seems like she is having fun at school. What do you do with her that she seems to enjoy? How can we carry that over into what we do at home? What things do you think she needs to work on?
Then move to the questions you really want to ask:
I have noticed that DD can read XX YY ZZ, have you noticed this too? Is there any way that we can capitalise on her maths / reading / comprehension skills? Are you planning to do any extension work to?? Are there any other kids in her class that are at a similar level?
I know some people would think, why waste time asking the first lot of questions, but I felt it really important to know that I respected that she was the teacher IYKWIM.

I would give the teacher a few more weeks at an absolute minimum with your child before even mentioning extension work.

Your child is in their first few weeks of kindergarten. Why on earth are you already worried about her being offered extension work? I think you are being OTT. I would give it more time and if the teacher is any good they will recognise IF she needs extra work and provide it. If it's not provided, then you could raise it with the teacher.

My child was reading 18 months before starting school but still started on basic readers. And also didn't start home readers for several weeks. I was not worried. She ended up getting extension work and was the top academic kindy kid without me intervening unneccessarily.

double post when I edited!

My DS1 is in his FYOS and we were told they would start to get homeworks as of Monday. They gave then a few weeks to settle in first, maybe your DD school is doing something similar...

Recognising random numerals up to 100 doesn't mean she has a thorough understanding of place value concepts (and the lead into multiplicative thinking).
Also it is vital that children develop number sense, beginning with numbers to 10, i.e. part-part-whole concepts to scaffold addition and subtraction.
Once these concepts are consolidated they can then be extrapolated into the next place value, and the next, and the next etc as we use a base 10 number system.

So there's a lot more to prep maths than just counting and reading numbers to 10.

In regard to reading it's good she is using sounding stategies and picture cues, but reading the words is only half the story. Showing adequate comprehension is vital before moving up levels. Otherwise they are just barking at text.

And they have only had a few weeks. The teacher will be establishing routines and expectations to begin. They will also be doing initial assessments, so the data will show what standard your DD should be working at.

See how it goes.

Edits-typos

Thanks keep them coming! Seriously!

But it is almost her second year of school as she basically had 4 days a week with a teacher who treated her like a prep last year and yes I think she is above average but I am not sure if she is being extended and I would like to know if there is a plan in place for extension of preps.

Does that make sense? So confused! Very different being on the other side of the fence!

Edited

She recognises numerals to 100, (in random order) counts to 100 in sequence, adds 2 add ends to 10. And not cause I am a teacher and have taught her but because she is interested and partially learned from her sister who is a year older.

Also she recognises all of her singular sounds (and sounds out words) and they haven't started sounds yet - which I totally get as there are kids who aren't where she is but I don't want her to go backwards

I agree with holding off until at least the end of first term. If she is not bringing home readers home yet, then chances are they are not assessing the kids regularly yet (just in the settling in period for most kids). Once the readers start, I am sure the teacher will be on top of assessing and moving her up levels in that respect (as long as she has good comprehension skills to match). Although each teacher at our school seems to test differently.... last year there was a kindy teacher who assessed every fortnight (moving kids one or 2 levels at a time), whereas DS' teacher would assess less regularly but move him up 5 grades at a time.

As for maths.... DS was the same..... way ahead of what they were teaching in class. The teacher just made sure she was extending him individually (they tended to have 2 teacher in class for maths groups).

ETA - overall, DS started ahead of most of the kids in his class, but ended the year way ahead.... so I can't complain that he was held back.

See that is language I understand but if she recognises number beyond 10 should she now be doing base ten and do I ask her teacher if I can do base 10 stuff at home.

In the first week there was an "extra" text book for phonics and the teacher said that they could use it for homework when that sound was introduced but not any earlier as they may become confused. So even though DD knows all of those letters and their sound I am like "well I shouldn't do it yet cause the teacher said so!" Completely LOL at myself!

How exactly will she 'go backwards'?

I'm one of those mums. I sent a note to the teacher when DD6 was sent a level 1 reader home second week of school. She finished prep on level 8 and level 1 had hardly any words. My dd6 and dd10 also do french on Saturday's and are into books.

I got a message back that they put all the kids on level 1 until they get all the info from prep. I told the teacher that it was her class room and I respected her teaching, my daughter thinks the world of her but I wanted to make sure she wasn't overlooked like my oldest dd. Teacher was fantastic and happy that I gave her some insight as she was still getting to know them. We only spoke for a few minutes though.

Maybe just let your teacher know her strengths and ask about assessments. Keep it fairly short atm as it's mainly settling them in - not trying to push them too hard so they don't like school (from the teacher).

Today DD6 was put on level 11.

Backwards and bored by "we learned that s says sssss today mummy" when she is ready for oo says long and short oo which is end of year stuff.

The thing is I know in Victora a lot of school are still assessing incoming preps to see what level the incoming prep's are (FYOS) They have done the parent helper reading chat they do every year and Readers only start going home in our school for the PREPs in MARCH.. Once all assessments. have been done

Both my kids were reading fluently when they started school. Even so they only got readers half way through first term and the non readers got them in second term.
I would bet that there are kids in her class who are further ahead that she is - not saying that to be mean, just to say that the academic stuff will ramp up later and if there is not differentiation at THAT stage that's when you need to worry.

First year of school seems to me (having had two kids go through) to be about learning to go to the toilet, unpack your lunch, and line up and sit on the mat.

But it's about more than recognising number to/beyond 10. She needs to understand them back to front - to subitise them, one to one correspondence them etc etc etc

They are probably doing the sounds in order and consolidating before moving on. Kids can learn 4 new sound-letter correspndence a week, successfully - how many is she doing a week?

I probably wouldn't raise it until the end of term either. We have parent teacher interviews at the end of term 1, and I've found the teachers pretty much have the kids sorted out by then.

I often get told at interviews to let them know if my kids are getting bored. For example, DS2's teacher last year told me at interviews that she was sending home readers at a lower level than she knew he was capable of, but she wanted him to work on fluency and expression. I was supposed to let her know if he got bored with them and she would increase the difficulty level.

If the teacher is any good (and you probably won't be able to tell just yet) the your DD definitely won't go backwards.

readers take a few weeks to come home, at our school FYOS still have Wednesday off, and the teachers are still doing assessments of all the kids. Readers start after this, and if your child can read, then they will quickly progress through the readers, as the teachers doing assessments on the kids every few weeks.

My DD is rather good at maths, was the same as your child last year (she is in grade 1 now) and it was amazing what the teacher did with such a wide range of abilities. For children that were only starting to grasp the concept, the used counting blocks to add 2 numbers together. For children that got it easily, they used 4 10 sided dice, and rolled them to make 2, 2 digit numbers, and the kids added those in their heads.

Personally I'd wait until at least 2nd term to see the teacher, and probably a couple of weeks into it, to see what is happening in the classroom, and whether the teacher is managing to keep your child interested

The first term of prep is more about "learning to learn". I found that the teachers spend the first term assessing everyone .... teaching them to sit still and listen - definitely a skill my 4yo had to learn. Taking it turns to speak, doing all aspects of school work - not just letters and numbers. They are improving their fine motor skills too.

Continue to read with her at home too .... you need to make sure her comprehension of what she is reading is just as good as her memory of the words.

Nope, it's not about recognising numbers to 10, but about having a solid understanding of number sense to 10.

If you want to extend her at home work on higher order concepts just as partitioning, but keep it to 10.

See i came from a school (DD#1) that did play based prep and no readers and she really suffered so I did it all at home. And I believe that this school is more switched on so I don't want to preempt what the school will do and ruin their system but I have a bad experience with teachers behind me that I want to make sure that DD#2 is getting the right level of work. DD#1's teacher is in the classroom and we chat every morning (she has a very open door policy) so we have already caught up about levels etc. I am just feeling in the dark about my preppie!

OTT@@!(*&!(%$(*!&%&

MUM850



I am not insulted I am sure that this is the case (i.e.) others at or above her level. I just worry about how much later it will ramp up!

And



She has been doing this for 3 years (yes seriously Miss Organised from age 2 at one day occasional care) so should she be held back because other's can't? (not meant in a b*tchy way)

I wouldn't worry yet, keep reading with her at home and encouraging her interest in numbers etc and let her get the most out of learning how to cope with school, making friends, interacting with the older kids and finding their place in the school. She has years ahead for academic excellence. Which won't happen if she's not happy and secure in the school and herself.

I know its frustrating when you want them to be challenged and pushed to do their best but its still so early int he year, the teacher is only just getting to know each child and their strengths and weaknesses, approach her at the end of this term/start of next term about extending her if she is becoming bored with the work.

Her comprehension is better than her sister who is a year older and is average or above. God I sound like a skyte but it is just fact!




AHHHHH see she has done alllll of this and I am going insane! She is so totally well adjusted, enjoying school, friends with every single prep. . . . .

I need to let go don't I???

Sounds familiar. Everyone here is suggesting to wait, but, personally, I would have a friendly chat to the teacher now, make sure that she knows you are on her side, and that you have an interest in ensuring your DD has a great year at school. Being bored for a quarter of the school year is not a great way to ensure she goes on to academic success.
I am sure that your teacher will appreciate your enthusiasm and support.

(We had a first-year-out teacher last year, and she was so happy to have someone talk to her and be the "friendly face")

Moved this to the appropriate forum.

As a parent of a child in FY0S, I would wait until the end of term as I think teachers are only just finishing their assessments of where each child is at. We received our first reader today - it was going to be next term but the Kindy teachers decided that this year's group was ready.

DS is finding some of the work boring (cutting and oasting nursery rhymes) but is making great progress with sight words as well as building confidence through News and other aspects of the class program so we are quite satisfied.

I just think your expectations are too high at this stage. It's easier and less disappointing to go with the flow a bit more. I am not saying it's ideal and my kids certainly found it frustrating at the start of prep. But there are other kids doing the same as your DD who can read chapter books if you see what I mean.
The question is... is it right, and by complaining, will it make any difference? Likely not.
In my DDs prep (FYOS) class, there was a five year difference in achievement between the top kid and the bottom kid. They did manage that OK, but I can tell you , not in the first 4 weeks.
What do you teach, just out of interest?

How could the teacher know your daughter as well as you do? Give her a chance, s/he has a lot of kids to assess and get to know in a short period of time... wait why am I saying this to a teacher?!

There's a lot more to FYOS than reading and basic mathematical principles (and you know one to one correspondence is different to recognising numbers and counting aloud). I would also wait until the end of term unless she starts getting restless or disinterested in school as a result of not feeling challenged.

No I will in no way be complaining and never planned on it. I just wanted to know if it was worth asking at this early stage.



I am primary. And have a Masters in Early Childhood which I think is drastically colouring my perspective. And that is why I came in for some mother's advice!

I have always done a lot at home. Not because I wanted to extend them or teach them but because they were always interested (2 DDS 12 months apart). And it makes it hard cause DD#2 has always worked at the year above herself (due to her sister).

And that is why I find myself in a difficult situation. I like this teacher. DD loves her. But I sat by last year and let DD1 not be challenged and now DD 2 who is POSSIBLY brighter (and no not gifted and talented but bright) than DD1 is "seemingly" way beyond what they are learning. I know that her teacher extended her last year. I really want that to continue for her - gee wizzakers it is so much harder when it is your child!

So I suppose what I want to do is eliminate my perception of what she is learning and find out what it is in actuality but I don't want to look like I am interrogating the teacher.

I honestly think it is the human factor coming out in me - I just want what is best for my child but I am a reasonable person and I want to make sure that my protectiveness doesn't overpower my reason!

My son's prep has classroom library books (they can change them every day) and school library books (from the big library that they change weekly). On top of reading these together every night we also get stuff from the local library (they have a good selection of 'readers' if that's what you want) and are reading 'Chapter Books' together every night. We have a huge library of our own at home as well.
His class won't get 'readers' until later in the year.
They started phonics from day one (up to third set now).

I've just purchased a set of phonics work books so I have some guidence for activites to do with him at home that will support what is happening at school. We already 'write' letters to family on a regular basis. He draws a picture then tells me the story to write, I write it out, and he is learning to copy some of the words. He loves to sit on my lap at the computer and type out a few sentences, especially if we add some photos and write the story about the photo.

I'm volunteering in the class room one morning per week, and there is a huge range of abilities, but the teacher seems to have a really clear idea of what the kids are capable of, their strengths and weeknesses, so I don't think it is too early to approach for more information. It doesn't hurt to find out your teachers views on extension and how she handles differentiated learning . You may also find that she has identified gaps or weaknesses that you are unaware of.

For maths, our class was working on recognising the number of letters in words (eg the sign at the door says 'School', How many letters does it have?, What sounds are in this word, Can you write this word, Can you put it in the correct group on th board - grouped my number of letters) and also matching numerals, names and quantities. eg 'five', '5' and a picture of 5 objects. Most of the class was working on 1-10, but I did notice some kids working on 1-5 and others on 1-20, so there was evidence of differentation.

I'm going to make a set of cards so we can play matching games with words, numerals, quantities. We already play Uno, Dominoes, Yahtzee and Snakes and Ladders quite a bit and I've got my eye out for Connect 4 which I think he will be ready for soon. What sort of numeral/maths based games does your DD enjoy? Things that assist with developing pattern or sequence recognition might suit her. Not sure if you can still get it but 'Mastermind' was a great game where you had to work out sequences and patterns. Backgammon might be an idea too.
If she is good at sight words then what about 'Find a words' - you can get game-maker programs online to make up your own using your own selection of words.

You have a Masters in ECE but thought your child suffered from a play based prep? That seems... odd! (not a loaded statement, just saying) Remember education is about the 'whole child' not just academia. I'm sure your DD's not advanced at everything

Be interested to hear what the teacher says though. I'm sure she'd be happy to speak with you and be glad you're so keen to enhance your daughter's learning.

I really really get what you are saying OP as I had this exact situation 2 yrs ago with my DD2 (6 yrs old now, then 4 yrs old) and I am also a teacher so was scared about being seen as 'one of those mums' too. My DD2 was reading at level 21 in preschool which is the level read by average children at end of yr 2. She is now reading level 28 in yr 1. I approached the school and DID NOT WAIT as I wanted my DD to be extended and challenged right away, not to wait until end of term as she was above the learning of numbers 1-10 and the 'letter of the week'. The school was very supportive and began extension straight away, testing and giving out readers at her level. Then for the next year, her FYOS last year, after more testing, she was given yr 2 homework right away and readers and was sent to the yr 2 class each morning to read with the more advanced reading students. She didnt have to do the kindy sight words or readers. Even though my DD2 is a very good reader, she is still a young, little emotional yr 1 student so we ensure she is with her peers as well as with more advanced readers to extend her. She is also a year above her peers in maths and is being streamed into ability groups for maths as well as literacy. I have not had my DD tested (IQ testing) and dont think we will.
I would suggest that you dont wait until the end of term (why wait?), and that you have an appointment with the teacher plus the executive/literacy specialist/principal to make your DD an individual learning plan (ILP) with steps in place to support/enrich/engage your DD. I found it very hard to advocate for my DD as I have been on both sides of the fence as a teacher AND as a parent and I know how the system works and how limiting it can be. Best of luck, feel free to PM me.

Seriously, you don't come across as a complainer, interrogator or a whinger - you sound like a perfectly reasonable mother of two bright and eager children.

If you teach primary ...
would you prefer:
the parent/carer/s of one of your most enthusiastic and bright children to glance furtively at you like they want to say something to you but can't quite seem to get it out every time you see them
or
would you prefer:
the parent/carer/s to stroll up, make some chitty chatty small talk and ask for appropriate direction in how to help the child have a great first year at school?

Is there any way that you can swing a drop off or pick up to let you have 5-10 minutes of the teacher's time?

Ha ha ha.

I could have posted this topic, both DH and I are teachers.

I'll add a more detailed reply later or PM you when I have a bit more time.

No, ring and make a time to meet. Don't tie them up at drop off or pick up.

DH got all hot under the collar and spent DD2's first year interrogating her teachers. I was highly embarrassed. I think that's why I am a bit 'wait and see' on the matter!

DD2 isn't even all that bright! That's the other two!

Relish - my child suffered at school academically because she was ready to read and do maths but there weren't doing it! So I filled in at home what the school didn't provide despite the $6000 I paid in fees! Ironic I know. And she is certainly not advanced at everything so socially play based prep was good for her! But that was child number one!! We make all of our mistakes with child number one and correct them for the second one don't we LOL!

If i go ahead with the interview after reading everyones replies I was wondering if something like this sounded ok?

"I am a bit concerned that DD#2 is trying to keep up with her sister and it is more evident this year than in the past. I have noticed it in that she is trying to read DD#1 home readers. I know that school readers don't start until term 2 but is there some way I coiuld get some readers for her that are more her level as I want her to succeed not fail by trying to read grade one readers.

And a question about maths. It seems that she is recognising numbers beyond 10 - reading the numerals. She also tries very hard to do DD#1 addition and subtraction problems (with some success). I want to make sure that she is not jumping ahead and has the foundations in place properly. Is there anything I can do at home with her that is inline with the school program?"

Unfortunately becanne I don't really know what is going on in the classroom apart from what dd reports home so I can't bring home activities inline with it - perhaps that is what I should be chasing. And idea of what they are doing in the classroom academically so that I can support her learning at home (the year one teacher sends home a news letter with their essential learnings every week) again but don't want to compare - each teacher to their own method!

LOL

at this

I would much rather a parent come and see me in one form or another!

I think that is spot on, OP. (You could also ask when the term program/class newsletter comes out)

howdo we get a news letter but it is organisational more than academic.

I think you have your answer then.
I also think your DDs teacher will appreciate a parent that actually has an interest in their child's education, and what the class is doing.

LOL - every day I ask DS what he did at school and the answer is always the same - 'I played outside'!

It can't hurt to ask for an outline of the teaching plan or daily activites - would you be willing provide this if a parent asked you for it? Maybe it is something the teacher has never been asked for or thought to provide.

I think your outline of what to ask the teacher sounds reasonable.

There is plenty of research that supports the idea that children perform best in our school system when they have a parent/guardian who is willing and able to advocate on there behalf. (See - I learned something at uni!)

Oops but not how to spell!

Glad you feel you learned something at Uni! I often wonder why we go when on the job training seems to teach us so much more!

PS My typos are terrible that is all of the edits as I go back and reread and find yet another mistake!

My DD is in FYOS and in a similar boat to yours. I am holding off contacting the teacher about it. For us, as long as she is enjoying school that's all we ask at this point. If she were actually bored with the work it would be different, but it seems to be increasing her confidence exponentially to be finding her school work relatively easy. If it continues into next term I might say something. For the time being, we're just doing some extra work that DD enjoys and is challenged by on the weekends.

I had a similar situation with my eldest DD when she started kinder. I used our initial interview with her teacher as an opportunity to give her as much information about what DD could do. I then expressed that I felt she may already know a lot of what would be taught. I asked the teacher to suggest to me hownshe would like me to let her know where DD sat in relation to the work being covered. Her (amazing) teacher started her on work the same as the other kids and when I noticed she had mastered something I would mention it to her teacher. She would then be benchmarked and moved up. By the end of the year she was being extended in all areas and had a brilliant kinder experience and we have a great relationship with the teacher.

Also, even though DD had known many of her letters and sounds from 2 years of age and well and truly mastered them by preschool she requested to have the same sound book for home learning as her peers. Instead of just doing the activity to learn the letter and sound she would think of words that started with that letter and write them and/or draw pictures of them. She sometimes searched in mags for pictures of words starting with the letter and glue them in. This was all driven by her.

I just followed her lead, when she showed decreased interest in readers I knew she needed me to talk to the teacher about moving her up as she was bored etc. This approach worked well for us. Wiith the magic words, DD read them easily from early on but didn't spell all of them as well so this was more her focus. It was all handled with tact and discretion so the other parents didn't know that DD had an alternative program.

So, I guess I'm saying, definitely talk to the teacher openly and honestly but perhaps rather than asking for extension straight away make a plan for how you are going to communicate with each other about the need for additional work as the weeks go by. I found that once the teacher knew DD I didn't have ton drive extension, it just happened because the teacher was child focused and did individual goal setting and planning.

Part if it could be psychological too. Last year I could chat to the teacher every day (open door policy and neither class go going till 20 minutes after the bell). This year it is clear that teachers are busy getting ready before school (year one teacher breaks the rules ) so I don't get that daily touch base, smile, how is she going? with the prep teacher. Maybe I should make that evident too?



I like those words - make a plan. Thanks for that can I borrow them?

Smile at her, and maybe offer her some encouragement? You know, "the class looks happy today" / "wow, they really enjoyed making XX yesterday, didn't they" / "have a great day" type short & simple friendly stuff?
She might know you are a teacher and is a little worried that she won't live up to your expectations (hence the "looking busy" bit etc - I know I do this sometimes...)!

Is she a very experienced teacher, or new-ish?

You sure can. I was really worried about being one of 'those mums' but the thing is, I simply have one of 'those kids'.

I also found it a little hard to advocate for my child as it seems more natural to advocate for kids who need that bit extra help rather than ones who are above age levels. Because of this my focus was, and remains to be, on DD's self esteem, resilience, persistence and problem solving. With these as the focus, the appropriate extension follows naturally. It's tricky at first but when teachers get to know their kids they can see if the kids need extra and will (hopefully) respond to that.

Sorry MummDiva I didn't mean to give the wrong impression she is very friendly, experienced but there is no hanging around after the bell it is in and gone where as last year the bell went and any time you dropped off until roll call (about 20 mins after the bell) you could have a chat and a catch up - first in first served basis. No chat before school this year you HAVE to make a time for a decent chat (longer than your everyday hi and a quick comment). That is what I meant.

Maybe I should just email her?